Red diesel

[doobin]

1 hour ago, coppice cutter said:

"The government said this week that not only will those losing the rebate not be allowed to buy red diesel on or after 1^st April 2022, they will not be able to use any. Storage tanks must be emptied and flushed out ahead of the deadline so that enforcement inspectors can clearly tell the difference between illegal red diesel and standard ‘white’ diesel."

 

This is the sort of idiotic nonsense consistently spawned by politicians/civil servants that really, really, boils my piss.

 

So what do you do with your red diesel that you are emptying from your tank on 31st March 2022.

 

Totally impractical idiotic bullshit, formulated by people who couldn't change a wheel on their car if they got a feckin puncture.

 

I thought leaving the EU was supposed to help get us away from this sort of crap.

That's not particularly impractical. Red diesel is going, you have a year to get ready, schedule your buying accordingly. Not rocket science to be fair.

 

What is ridiculous is the multitude of expemptions they have left that are open to abuse and surely will be abused, just as the agricultural exemption is abused day in across the land for transporting plant.

 

If it was actually going to be policed I could reluctantly get behind it, as yet another stealth tax. What I can't abide is this no-mans-land whereby a business is forced to choose between breaking the law (but probably not gonna get caught) and being straight but loosing out on work to a huge proportion of other businesses.

 

Every single one of you on here who runs a tractor or mog for removing a domestic tree, or building site clearance, or indeed anything that isn't the primary industry of bona fide forestry is breaking the law. No ifs or buts. Yet I understand why you do it- you're very unlikely to be pulled up on it, if you do get pulled it will more than have paid for the fine, and above all- everyone else does it!

Edited April 17, 2021 by doobin

[MattyF]

That's not particularly impractical. Red diesel is going, you have a year to get ready, schedule your buying accordingly. Not rocket science to be fair.
 
What is ridiculous is the multitude of expemptions they have left that are open to abuse and surely will be abused, just as the agricultural exemption is abused day in across the land for transporting plant.
 
If it was actually going to be policed I could reluctantly get behind it, as yet another stealth tax. What I can't abide is this no-mans-land whereby a business is forced to choose between breaking the law (but probably not gonna get caught) and being straight but loosing out on work to a huge proportion of other businesses.
 
Every single one of you on here who runs a tractor or mog for removing a domestic tree, or building site clearance, or indeed anything that isn't the primary industry of bona fide forestry is breaking the law. No ifs or buts. Yet I understand why you do it- you're very unlikely to be pulled up on it, if you do get pulled it will more than have paid for the fine, and above all- everyone else does it!

It’s not going ....not for forestry or agriculture any way..... that is what the bulk of us do on this forum not construction.

[MattyF]

Actually I’ll re fraze that as it’s what a lot of folk do if they are doing clearance for development and construction.... I guess they will be running white ?

[MattyF]

New Zealand do it quite sensibly. All diesel is taxed at a much lower rate, probably the equivalent of our red diesel, but users of diesel vehicles on the public roads then pay a "road user charge" to compensate for their cheaper fuel.
 
Therefore there is no market for, or benefit of, diesel laundering or any such sheenanigans as it's all sold at the reduced rate.

This would be the sensible route to take instead of this ridiculous alternative.. our fuel emissions on the scheme of what third world countries , the air industry and fishing by scouring the sea bed and releasing locked up carbon off it is probably virtually 0 in comparison.

[coppice cutter]

1 hour ago, doobin said:

If it was actually going to be policed I could reluctantly get behind it, as yet another stealth tax. What I can't abide is this no-mans-land whereby a business is forced to choose between breaking the law (but probably not gonna get caught) and being straight but loosing out on work to a huge proportion of other businesses.

Yeah, I'll agree with that, pretty strongly actually.

 

But it proves my point, the guy who wants to play by the book will have hassle and expense whatever way you cut it to be in a position to change over entirely on the 1st April. Alternately, there will be those who'll just work away totally ignoring the rules and most likely get away with it.

 

They really should introduce legislation in such a way that it's easy for the law-abidding guy to comply, and difficult for the law-breaker not to.

 

This is just another classic example of the exact opposite.

 

Oh, and FWIW, this isn't sour grapes as I'm agricultural (genuinely) so won't be affected. However, that doesn't preclude me from being exasperated knowing that yet again a whole sector of those who wish to be decent and law-abidding will be put at a disadvantage to those who couldn't care less. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by coppice cutter

[coppice cutter]

2 hours ago, Baldbloke said:

But that would be far too sensible and wouldn’t capture the pending massive tax grab from construction and quarrying having to use white more heavily taxed diesel after April 2022.....

 

And who is the single largest customer of the quarrying and construction industries?, .....................the government itself!

 

So it'll be the same as the land fill tax, a huge percentage of the tax they get will just have to be paid out again in higher contract costs for social housing, roads, schools, hospitals, etc, etc. Only with a heap of pen-pushing and bureaucracy attached, all at considerable expense itself.

 

Where's this 'light-touch' governance that the Tories are supposed to deliver?

Edited April 17, 2021 by coppice cutter

[Justme]

On 15/04/2021 at 18:46, Decro said:

 I believe the non taxed low sulphur diesel is unlikely to have a full compliment of additives due to cost.

 

The reason red is cheaper is less tax not less base costs.

[spuddog0507]

6 hours ago, doobin said:

That's not particularly impractical. Red diesel is going, you have a year to get ready, schedule your buying accordingly. Not rocket science to be fair.

 

What is ridiculous is the multitude of expemptions they have left that are open to abuse and surely will be abused, just as the agricultural exemption is abused day in across the land for transporting plant.

 

If it was actually going to be policed I could reluctantly get behind it, as yet another stealth tax. What I can't abide is this no-mans-land whereby a business is forced to choose between breaking the law (but probably not gonna get caught) and being straight but loosing out on work to a huge proportion of other businesses.

 

Every single one of you on here who runs a tractor or mog for removing a domestic tree, or building site clearance, or indeed anything that isn't the primary industry of bona fide forestry is breaking the law. No ifs or buts. Yet I understand why you do it- you're very unlikely to be pulled up on it, if you do get pulled it will more than have paid for the fine, and above all- everyone else does it!

Well said but one thing i will say is i know of a car breakers that used to salvage nearly enough white diesel to run 2 recovery trucks, but he says this last 7/8 years he has seen that go less n less each year as a lot are now carrying red which will run the digger in the yard but he now says he has to buy 70% of the white diesel at the pump, its not that long since he recovered a BMW X5 that had been on its roof down a banking, driver had been cut out so roof was F - - - - D, took it back to yard and when some police came to do some checks/tests or what ever they do it was found to be 3/4 full of red, i think this is a big part of the red going and only being sold to who ever is entitled to it,

[dan blocker]

7 hours ago, Commando said:

As you say, how will they police it! I guess you’ll need a CPH number to buy it?
Shame if it disappears off the limited forecourts that currently sell it.

As far as I understand there won’t be Red diesel available to buy anywhere, only what we know as white. The rumours have been doing the rounds for several years so none of this is new. It’s assumed agriculture and forestry will be able to claim the tax back(or most of it🤔)

As someone as already mentioned diesel stolen from farm tanks, tractors and big plant as been made more attractive for the thieves. At least with red if by the unlikely chance a transit was pulled by the police and found to have red in the tank it was taken off the road🤔

[porky]

Is there ethanol in Red diesel? Or is it exactly the same as White simply died Red?

White diesel has it and will increase to 10% this year so loads of lesser used plant sitting around with it it may cause problems.