Excessive bar wear

[Will C]

@the village idiot

We had a similar problem about a year ago (but with out the quantity of ringing up) switched to rye oil’s mineral oil from a veg based one and no more problem, like you I would rather use veg based oil but it was costing us twice. We tried different sprockets, different bar and chain makes but it all came back to the oil

[Stere]

Old thread same topic:

 

 

 

[the village idiot]

9 hours ago, Pete Mctree said:

How are you dressing the bar? Do you file the top of the rails as well as the burrs on the sides? 
 

could you please take some pics of bar, chain and sprockets as it is an interesting problem

Yes, bar top rails and burrs are filed when dressing the bar. Those specialised right angle bar dressing files do a good job of this.

 

I'll take some pictures of the chains and sprockets. There really is nothing to see on the bars, they look pristine.

[Paddy1000111]

Out of interest what is the guage like on the bars when you check it with a guage. How are you sharpening the chains? Only time I've ever toasted a bar was due to it not being sharp enough or bad sharpening pushing the teeth over and making the channel inside wear at an angle which would show as a bannana cut in a long cut but if you're just doing rounds your may not notice. 

 

If you put a straight edge up against the bar and a tooth is there a gap or does the straight edge sit flat against the bar? 

 

I'd definitely go back to the oem sprocket, try a new bar and chain. Run it in by covering it in wd40 and running the engine for a bit to let all the paint and tolerances open up before cutting and run synthplus or another good fully synthetic oil and see what happens. If you're that worried environmentally then stick a big tarp down to catch the chips. 

[Rob D]

On 11/04/2021 at 08:56, the village idiot said:

Hi Folks,

 

Wondering if anyone can help with an issue I am having over the last couple of years.

 

I seem to be getting through an awful lot of chainsaw bars, especially whilst ringing up logs during the spring/summer.

 

I'm getting wear inside the groove of the bars after only one or two chain sharpens. The chain starts tilting in the bar and the saw stops cutting. I'm not even taking any paint off the bars before they become unusable.

 

We are pretty diligent with bar dressing and chain sharpening/tensioning so don't think that is the issue. We use Stihl chains, Sugihara and Rolomatic bars and Arborol chain oil.

 

Anyone out there know what I am doing wrong?

 

 

Sorry if I already posted on this - not got time to go through the whole thread. Here is what I see that can cause early bar wear and failure:

 

1. In first place [by a good margin] - not changing the drive rim or drive sprocket regularly. And now to customers I sound like a parrot 'have you changed the rim on that saw before you run that £400 Cannon bar?'. Often the answers run the same a) The saw is pretty new 2) I don't think I need to do that yet 3) Yes I did it recently [then find out it was 9 months ago] 4) What are you talking about [as in what is a drive rim]? 5) It should be fine I think... 6) I checked it it's fine [it's not] 7) The saw has only had 'light use' [I have still not figured out what 'light use' of a chainsaw is - it's either cutting wood or it's not!] 😎 8] My Husky dealer says it is all fine.
2. This is not about how long the timing is - if you use an old knackered chain on a new drive rim or sprocket to 'save money' - you will wear that drive rim 3-6 times faster. So yes it may only be on there 1 month - but you've done 6 months worth of wear and tear to it.
3. If you use a new chain, new drive rim/sprocket on an old bar - same thing [though if the bar is correctly dressed and maintained this is much less an issue than point 1.]
4. Do not use old chains on a new bar - and be very very wary of running a chain that has de railed on a new bar [that really knackers things]. On an old shagged bar- you'll get away with it - you won't on a new bar and it will cause some of the issues you are talking about.

 

Then there are other issues that can cause this - not matching the correct chain to the bar [but sounds like you are].

 

Another way to look at it is chain sharpening - do you use a guide as in a guide that controls tooth length/shape etc etc? Whether you have saw dogs or not - that saw should pull nicely through the wood... you should never have to apply too much pressure..

 

I know I can't sharpen by hand well - hence use the precision grinder [not trying to flog you one - we don't have them at moment anyway...]. Try a guide like this

 

 

 

 

[wyk]

If you are using straight rapeseed, the oiler will pump it out faster as it is less viscous than most other oils. Be sure you are not running out of oil before fuel, which is possible on some saws using rapeseed if you are not careful when topping up. Make sure to top up the oil reservoir every time you fuel up. 

 

Veg oil gets a bad rap - but straight rapeseed was designed to be a lubricant in the first place, and only in modern times has it been even made edible. Not only was it designed to be a lubricant, it was notable because of how well it stayed in place and lubricated even when exposed to steam(which is similar to what's happening on a chainsaw bar in a tree).

 

 

[the village idiot]

1 hour ago, Rob D said:

 

 

Sorry if I already posted on this - not got time to go through the whole thread. Here is what I see that can cause early bar wear and failure:

 

1. In first place [by a good margin] - not changing the drive rim or drive sprocket regularly. And now to customers I sound like a parrot 'have you changed the rim on that saw before you run that £400 Cannon bar?'. Often the answers run the same a) The saw is pretty new 2) I don't think I need to do that yet 3) Yes I did it recently [then find out it was 9 months ago] 4) What are you talking about [as in what is a drive rim]? 5) It should be fine I think... 6) I checked it it's fine [it's not] 7) The saw has only had 'light use' [I have still not figured out what 'light use' of a chainsaw is - it's either cutting wood or it's not!] 😎 8] My Husky dealer says it is all fine.
2. This is not about how long the timing is - if you use an old knackered chain on a new drive rim or sprocket to 'save money' - you will wear that drive rim 3-6 times faster. So yes it may only be on there 1 month - but you've done 6 months worth of wear and tear to it.
3. If you use a new chain, new drive rim/sprocket on an old bar - same thing [though if the bar is correctly dressed and maintained this is much less an issue than point 1.]
4. Do not use old chains on a new bar - and be very very wary of running a chain that has de railed on a new bar [that really knackers things]. On an old shagged bar- you'll get away with it - you won't on a new bar and it will cause some of the issues you are talking about.

 

Then there are other issues that can cause this - not matching the correct chain to the bar [but sounds like you are].

 

Another way to look at it is chain sharpening - do you use a guide as in a guide that controls tooth length/shape etc etc? Whether you have saw dogs or not - that saw should pull nicely through the wood... you should never have to apply too much pressure..

 

I know I can't sharpen by hand well - hence use the precision grinder [not trying to flog you one - we don't have them at moment anyway...]. Try a guide like this

 

 

 

 

Thanks Rob,

 

Will definitely try the sprocket change.

 

I recently bought a granberg sharpener from you so my chains are properly sharpened.

 

Excellent tool by the way.

[Rob D]

3 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

Thanks Rob,

 

Will definitely try the sprocket change.

 

I recently bought a granberg sharpener from you so my chains are properly sharpened.

 

Excellent tool by the way.

 

When you next get a new bar try and change everything - ie new drive sprocket/new bar/x2 or 3 new chains. Run as a batch and see if that works.

[Rob D]

1 hour ago, wyk said:

If you are using straight rapeseed, the oiler will pump it out faster as it is less viscous than most other oils. Be sure you are not running out of oil before fuel, which is possible on some saws using rapeseed if you are not careful when topping up. Make sure to top up the oil reservoir every time you fuel up. 

 

Veg oil gets a bad rap - but straight rapeseed was designed to be a lubricant in the first place, and only in modern times has it been even made edible. Not only was it designed to be a lubricant, it was notable because of how well it stayed in place and lubricated even when exposed to steam(which is similar to what's happening on a chainsaw bar in a tree).

 

 

 

 

Nice never new it! Prob work better in the aux oiler if it is thinner [in summer anyway..]

 

[the village idiot]

25 minutes ago, Rob D said:

 

When you next get a new bar try and change everything - ie new drive sprocket/new bar/x2 or 3 new chains. Run as a batch and see if that works.

Yup, thanks Rob.

 

Have tried numerous new bar and chain combo's but never the holy trinity.