Can I do some extra freelance work for the company I work for?

[Tom D]

We have 12 staff and use a number of subbys so I have a pretty good grasp of the PAYE and insurance situation these days.

 

The first thing to know is that the HMRC definition of a genuine Subcontractor and the Insurance Industry definition of a bona fide Subcontractor are different so It would be possible to be one and not the other.

 

So the HMRC definition would be someone who works for a number of different employers an invoices them directly. They are not concerned with the type of work that they do.

 

The insurance Industry definition has more to do with the nature of the management of the subby. For a subby to be bona fide in insurance terms he must work or be capable of working under his own direction likely using his own tools and equipment. 

 

So scenario 1:

Dave works for John 5 days a week all year. Dave has all his own kit and he is in charge when on site, John sends a groundie to work with Dave. John doesn't need to be on site, Dave will get the job done....

 

In this scenario Dave is a bona fide subcontractor in the eyes of the insurance industry, so john could get away with not having EL Cover and Dave could have his own policy providing John didn't 'employ' anyone else. 

 

In the eyes of HMRC however Dave is not a subcontractor, he should be employed by john since he doesn't work anywhere else.

 

Scenario 2: Dave Works for John 2 days a week, he works for Bill the rest of the time. Dave has his own saw and climbing kit but he works under the supervision of John, they work together as a team all day.

 

Dave is a genuine subby in the eyes of HMRC.

 

He is not a subby in the eyes of the insurance industry. John needs to have EL insurance.

 

Scenario 3:

Dave works for John 2 days a week, he works for Bill the rest of the time. Dave has all his own kit and he is in charge when on site, John sends a groundie to work with Dave. John doesn't need to be on site, Dave will get the job done....

 

Dave is a genuine subby in the eyes of HMRC and the insurance Industry.

 

 

[Stubby]

7 minutes ago, Tom D said:

We have 12 staff and use a number of subbys so I have a pretty good grasp of the PAYE and insurance situation these days.

 

The first thing to know is that the HMRC definition of a genuine Subcontractor and the Insurance Industry definition of a bona fide Subcontractor are different so It would be possible to be one and not the other.

 

So the HMRC definition would be someone who works for a number of different employers an invoices them directly. They are not concerned with the type of work that they do.

 

The insurance Industry definition has more to do with the nature of the management of the subby. For a subby to be bona fide in insurance terms he must work or be capable of working under his own direction likely using his own tools and equipment. 

 

So scenario 1:

Dave works for John 5 days a week all year. Dave has all his own kit and he is in charge when on site, John sends a groundie to work with Dave. John doesn't need to be on site, Dave will get the job done....

 

In this scenario Dave is a bona fide subcontractor in the eyes of the insurance industry, so john could get away with not having EL Cover and Dave could have his own policy providing John didn't 'employ' anyone else. 

 

In the eyes of HMRC however Dave is not a subcontractor, he should be employed by john since he doesn't work anywhere else.

 

Scenario 2: Dave Works for John 2 days a week, he works for Bill the rest of the time. Dave has his own saw and climbing kit but he works under the supervision of John, they work together as a team all day.

 

Dave is a genuine subby in the eyes of HMRC.

 

He is not a subby in the eyes of the insurance industry. John needs to have EL insurance.

 

Scenario 3:

Dave works for John 2 days a week, he works for Bill the rest of the time. Dave has all his own kit and he is in charge when on site, John sends a groundie to work with Dave. John doesn't need to be on site, Dave will get the job done....

 

Dave is a genuine subby in the eyes of HMRC and the insurance Industry.

 

 

Good post . Explained concisely without going on , and on , and .......

[Khriss]

2 minutes ago, Stubby said:

Good post . Explained concisely without going on , and on , and .......

.... Without mentioning Jeff at all  😉 notice.  K

[Tom D]

Just to add....

it is the responsibility of the business to check and evaluate its subcontractors, this is why you often have to fill out a subcontractor pack before you can work with larger firms. We ask subbys to do it. If we didn’t and a Subby cocked up we could still be held liable...

[Johnsond]

On 19/12/2020 at 21:32, Stuck in a Tree said:

I just wondered if anyone knows if this is allowed. My company that I'm on PAYE for offered me extra work as a freelancer instead of as overtime, which seems a bit dodgy and weird to me but the pay's better per hour. I can't find anywhere on the internet where it says this ISN'T ok, so maybe it's fine?

 

Does anyone know more about employment law than me and can help out please?

 

M.

Page after page of replies on this stating x y and z but 100% you cannot be paye during the week and freelance at weekends for the same company end of story full stop. 
If I’ve missed this already being stated somewhere in the last few pages then ignore this. 

[Mark Bolam]

We have a winner!

 

[Johnsond]

6 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

We have a winner!

 

Did I miss something in the preceding 18 pages 😳

[Khriss]

9 minutes ago, Mark Bolam said:

We have a winner!

 

Not unless HMRC are reading this you know 😮 K

Edited December 22, 2020 by Khriss
( quickly delete all your pics with yr vans in them 😁

[Mark Bolam]

To be fair, I think we knew it was iffy in answer to the OP’s question from page 1.

[AHPP]

Tom D’s in Scotland, Paddy.