Brexit and the arb industry.

[Jamie Jones]

44 minutes ago, harvey b davison said:

I cannot believe some of the doom and gloom some people are posting. It's as though they really want this country to fail. Cannot get my head around this.

I agree...
That is why this country is always being dragged down... 

[Big J]

57 minutes ago, harvey b davison said:

I cannot believe some of the doom and gloom some people are posting. It's as though they really want this country to fail. Cannot get my head around this.

Perhaps it's just recognising a track record of failure (for the common man) spanning 40 odd years, a misplaced sense of entitlement and a country ill equipped to sort out the mess it votes itself into.

 

One interesting comparison is North sea oil. Norway is now one of the richest countries in the world off the back of it, has invested incredibly in its infrastructure and population and has effectively set itself up (within the current economic model) for life.

 

What has the UK got to show for its black gold?

Edited December 16, 2020 by Big J

[trigger_andy]

Just now, Big J said:

Perhaps it's just recognising a track record of failure (for the common man) spanning 40 odd years, a misplaced sense of entitlement and a country I'll equipped to sort out the mess it votes itself into.

 

One interesting comparison is North sea oil. Norway is now one of the richest countries in the world off the back of it, has invested incredibly in its infrastructure and population and has effectively set itself up (within the current economic model) for life.

 

What has the UK got to show for its black gold?

Norway as you know has a vastly different demographic than the UK.  The argument that the vast majority of the North Sea and West of Shetland reserves should have been kept solely for the Scottish people is a separate discussion, but had that been the case perhaps Scotland with a similar population density would have prospered in the same way Norway did? We might have been even more blessed and would have never seen the rise of the SNP.  

 

So diluting a commodity that made a nation of 5 million prosper verses a nation of 65 million will obviously have a vastly differing effect on the economy. I believe there is government papers from the 70's relating to this very subject. They where fairly prominent in the run up to the referendum. Anyway, they basically said that the North Sea Oil reserves acted as a guarantee for the debt and future loans for the UK. 

[Rough Hewn]

I cannot believe some of the doom and gloom some people are posting. It's as though they really want this country to fail. Cannot get my head around this.

Fair point.
This could be an amazing opportunity.
Revitalisation of British forestry?
Legislation to protect our natural ecology which had teeth enough to scare the most ballsy developers?
Cooperation between all arb workers and tree officers/fsc/aa etc
With common goals to secure the trees and forests for future generations?
Increase the percentage of land in the uk with permanent tree cover.
Increase exemptions fir forestry and horticultural purposes.
If we organised ourselves.....
Lobbied government....
[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

[topchippyles]

4 hours ago, Stubby said:

They like a challenge .

Love to see an old coffin dodger like you do the return route to africa. Long walk is that stubby 🤣

[Stere]

Quote

The UK's biggest problem is we don't manufacture that much any more... Why? Historically the Unions saw the industrial leaders as the enemy and wouldn't work with them. Where as in Germany the Unions worked with the industrial leaders and that's why they beat us hands down. The Workers, Bosses, Unions are all working for the same goals. Where as it became so toxic in the UK that manufactures moved there activities off shore and the jobs all went... 

Real reason is manufacturing was all offshored to china as labour costs are lower there nothing to do with unions, more to do with shareholders maximizing profits. German buisness are often privately owned and run for long term wealth so invest in increasing productivity & R&D not short term profit.

 

Anglo saxon model capitalism US/UK   versus the  German "social market economy"

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Stere

[topchippyles]

2 hours ago, Big J said:

Perhaps it's just recognising a track record of failure (for the common man) spanning 40 odd years, a misplaced sense of entitlement and a country ill equipped to sort out the mess it votes itself into.

 

One interesting comparison is North sea oil. Norway is now one of the richest countries in the world off the back of it, has invested incredibly in its infrastructure and population and has effectively set itself up (within the current economic model) for life.

 

What has the UK got to show for its black gold?

What has the UK got to show for its black gold? 

 

Its produced a raving mad scottish chap quite well known on this forum 🤣

[Big J]

8 hours ago, topchippyles said:

What has the UK got to show for its black gold? 

 

Its produced a raving mad scottish chap quite well known on this forum 🤣

Which one? We have so many! 🤣

[Stubby]

8 hours ago, topchippyles said:

Love to see an old coffin dodger like you do the return route to africa. Long walk is that stubby 🤣

A mere bagatelle for me and my Spaniel !😊

[openspaceman]

9 hours ago, Stere said:

Real reason is manufacturing was all offshored to china as labour costs are lower there nothing to do with unions, more to do with shareholders maximizing profits. German buisness are often privately owned and run for long term wealth so invest in increasing productivity & R&D not short term profit.

I think you are spot on with that but I think the mechanism was a bit different. Because the short termism of the shareholding classes after WW1 meant dividends and cashing in were the rule it meant there was little re investment. In turn the common market gave the financial sector a massive boost which was amplified by vastly increased mortgage lending in the 80s.

 

The knock on from this is wealth diverged and the wealthy classes spent their money on services making manufacturing wages less attractive. So our labour rates became linked to our financial sector rather than our industrial competitors' rates

9 hours ago, Stere said:

 

Anglo saxon model capitalism US/UK   versus the  German "social market economy"

 

 

Yes but the US has vastly better resources to counter the  short term share culture, we had grown in victorian times because we had access to empire which disappeared (largely in exchange for american financial assistance as they won the war.) and with that access to cheap resources.