Have the definitive regulations regarding firewood?

[john87]

3 hours ago, Martin du Preez said:

 

 

Why would you sell by weight? Surely the wetter the wood the heavier it would be?? What’s ever been wrong with cubic volume?

Says here that sometime you HAVE to sell it by weight...

 

Quantity of wood fuel

Unless the local authority in your area has passed a bye-law that states otherwise, there are no requirements relating to the sale of wood fuel. Your local trading standards service should be able to confirm whether such bye-laws are in existence.

Where there are local bye-laws wood fuel must be sold by net weight, and if it is in a container ready for sale the net weight must be made known to the customer. The requirement to sell wood fuel by net weight does not apply for quantities of less than 7.5 kg or more than 500 kg.

If wood is sold by the 'truckload' with an indication of net weight, merchants are advised to weigh the vehicle on a weighbridge and obtain a weight ticket.

If there are no bye-laws in existence then there are no requirements to sell by weight or to provide the consumer with a statement of the quantity provided. If, however, you make a voluntary declaration of weight that is incorrect in terms of quantity, you may be liable to legal action under the Weights and Measures Act 1985.

The Solid Fuel Association website contains brief information on the Approved Wood Fuel Merchants Scheme. Customers of scheme members may rely on the correct descriptions being applied to wood fuel, advice on the safe and efficient use of wood burning appliances and levels of customer service in line with SFA standards.

In England, from 1 May 2021, wood for domestic use can only be sold in quantities less than 2 m³ if it has been certified under the Ready to Burn scheme. Woodsure has been appointed by Defra to run the certification scheme that will come into force in England from 1 May 2021 for most wood fuel suppliers. If you are a small-scale wood producer who supplied less than 600 m³ of wood between 1 May 2020 and 30 April 2021, the scheme will apply from 1 May 2022. Sales of wood fuel greater than 2 m³ do not need to be certified. See the GOV.UK website for further guidance.

 

john..

[Chalgravesteve]

On 12/01/2022 at 17:56, john87 said:

Well, if the regulations state "delivery" then none of it applies to collections then. What if a separate arm of your business acted as a transport company transporting wood [for a fee] for people that had bought it...

 

No rules broken there...

 

john..

Surely, anyone with any common sense will understand that when you are trying to "manipulate" a rule in order to not comply with it, then you know that you are breaking it. The world seems to be full of people who think that rules/laws should not apply to them. Novak Djokovic, Boris, Dominic Cummings, John87, etc etc 

 

I don't agree with the requirement to register for Ready to Burn. My stuff is ALWAYS well under 20% MC, I've invested a lot of money in kilns and boilers and machinery to process, shift and deliver firewood. I know that my product will stand up to any scrutiny and test to determine it is under 20% MC, but the law now says it has to be registered, so despite the fact that I know I comply anyway, I'm now registered. In the great scheme of things, there are much more higher cost elements of firewood production than a registration for RTB. 

 

[john87]

44 minutes ago, Chalgravesteve said:

Surely, anyone with any common sense will understand that when you are trying to "manipulate" a rule in order to not comply with it, then you know that you are breaking it. The world seems to be full of people who think that rules/laws should not apply to them. Novak Djokovic, Boris, Dominic Cummings, John87, etc etc 

 

I don't agree with the requirement to register for Ready to Burn. My stuff is ALWAYS well under 20% MC, I've invested a lot of money in kilns and boilers and machinery to process, shift and deliver firewood. I know that my product will stand up to any scrutiny and test to determine it is under 20% MC, but the law now says it has to be registered, so despite the fact that I know I comply anyway, I'm now registered. In the great scheme of things, there are much more higher cost elements of firewood production than a registration for RTB. 

 

Hey, guess what?? I could not care less about rules for selling wood, as 1, they do not apply to me, [as i do not sell wood], and 2, i have access to a 60 acre estate where i can get all the wood i want so i do not have to buy any anyway, and thirdly, i do not live in a "smoke free zone" so i could burn car tyres if i wanted to.. I am just trying to help you lot..

 

Laws, are interpreted literally: If a laws states, "wood" for example, it does not mean "coal" Having actually read the act concerned, there is NO reference to "supply" or "deliver" or any other like term.. The operative term is "sell"

 

Soooo, unless you give the stuff away, there is no getting away from it..

 

Out of interest, how are wood drying kilns powered?? and does it not take rather a lot of power to dry out the wood?? Like, how much heat and i suppose you have to keep it up for weeks on end??

 

john..

Edited January 14, 2022 by john87

[dumper]

So what stops you giving your wood away and charging for the delivery?  A reasonable business practice 

Edited January 14, 2022 by dumper

[dumper]

Or put another way client buys the timber in the round or standing and pays to have it processed and delivered 

[john87]

21 minutes ago, dumper said:

Or put another way client buys the timber in the round or standing and pays to have it processed and delivered 

It all revolves around wood that is sold for the purposes of "combustion" so i would imagine it does not matter what form it is in. Still, if you sold slabs cut from a tree and said they were garden ornaments of axle stands you would be ok!!

 

john..

[Ben Pinnick]

1 hour ago, john87 said:

Out of interest, how are wood drying kilns powered?? and does it not take rather a lot of power to dry out the wood?? Like, how much heat and i suppose you have to keep it up for weeks on end??

 

This is a good question I wonder about too - I understand when payments were high for alternative heating sources it made sense - you were getting paid to burn wood to dry wood, but now they're gone whats the benefit of kiln drying from a commercial perspective? Unless its dry packaged in plastic or similar it gains back moisture so fast it will become ordinary barn stored wood %age very quickly, or worse if stored badly by a retailer.  

Is it just to keep up with ever increasing demand or does it have real end user benefit (if not bought in a sealed pack)?

[dumper]

1 hour ago, john87 said:

It all revolves around wood that is sold for the purposes of "combustion" so i would imagine it does not matter what form it is in. Still, if you sold slabs cut from a tree and said they were garden ornaments of axle stands you would be ok!!

 

john..

Wood sold for purpose of combustion your not selling wood just labour and tools

[Stubby]

33 minutes ago, Ben Pinnick said:

 - you were getting paid to burn wood to dry wood,

In some cases you were getting paid to burn wet wood to dry wood ...

[Chalgravesteve]

3 hours ago, john87 said:

Out of interest, how are wood drying kilns powered?? and does it not take rather a lot of power to dry out the wood?? Like, how much heat and i suppose you have to keep it up for weeks on end??

 

john..

I can't speak for others but in my case I burn wood in a large biomass boiler to produce the heat to run the kilns. We have approx 32,000 litres of water in an accumulator tank which drives the kilns 24/7. We burn the boiler twice a day to maintain the heat cycle into the accumulator tank and the kilns draw heat from the AT. The kilns are equipped with temperature sensor and humidity sensors which determine when to remove the heated, moisture laden air to maximise the capacity of the heated air to draw off moisture from the logs. We use the surplus wood that is hard to split into firewood as the fuel for the boiler, as we are processing arb waste to produce the firewood that we sell. The kilns can produce approx 36/40m3 of dry (12 -15% MC) wood per week.