Have the definitive regulations regarding firewood?

[renewablejohn]

3 minutes ago, Gardenscape said:

No mate, the world is full of people like you who just obey and accept daft rules thought up by clowns. If you want to comply with these rules then so be it, but don't look badly on people who don't want to because they aren't mugs. And your comparison to people like a PM is ridiculous.  And this is coming from someone who uses kilns to dry wood. As far as I am aware, kilns use fossil fuels to operate. You're creating pollution to dry wood to then burn. You logic is idiotic. It's far more sustainable to source wood locally that has been processed locally and dried naturally.

Quite agree. I also use kilns but my kilns are solar kilns which do not pollute like wood fired kilns but I get annoyed that I am under cut by 10 pound a m3 because people get paid RHI on these kilns burning wood to dry wood. Thankfully it looks like I may be able to claw this 10 pound back by not signing upto woodsure.

[Gardenscape]

1 minute ago, Haironyourchest said:

I think he 

I think he said he heats the kilns with wood burners...to be fair.

 

But yeah, **************** the rules. Embracing stupid rules leads society to totalitarianism, look at Oz. "Rules mate, rules!" The mindset is part of a cultural death spiral. Disregard for any and all rules also leads to disaster. It's a matter of using reason.

Oh, if that's is the case then it isn't as bad. Totally, if rules are common sense then yeah, but this is one rule that absolutely is BS and the GOV know it. It's another money making scheme to rinse the working class once again. To many people sit back and suck it up and we end up getting rinsed over and over. Totalitarianism. That's a topic for another day! 😀

[dudders]

1 hour ago, Chalgravesteve said:

But this is my point! If you are selling it as a product under 20% MC then get it registered and sell loads of it in whatever quantity you want to, to whoever you want without having to get any bogus forms out to justify why you sold it!

 

I can't fathom why you want to spend so much time and energy (which costs you money!) doing something on EVERY single sale in order to possibly avoid a bit of legislation which if you are selling wood at under 20%MC you actually comply with!! 

Giving the buyer a receipt, which includes the SOD-U declaration, for every single sale, is no more time or work than just giving a receipt, except that the buyer also signs it.  

But you must have got this certification yourself by now, so you know the hoops we have to jump through to gain certification.  I should add that some of these hoops are extras, added on to the legislation by Woodsure.  I'm pretty sure some of these extra conditions are unlawful, ie: not backed up by law, but will be checking up on that.  

The legislation only requires Woodsure to monitor the MC in firewood sold in small quantities.  According to the Act, if I send them a sample which is below 20%, they must give me certification.  But the company adds the following demands:

1. They will inspect the premises from which I'm selling - if they don't like it, no certificate;

2. I have to prove to them that I acquire the wood legally.  Simply telling them so is not enough;  

3. Every year, I have to provide them with my previous year's sales figures;

4. I must have public and product liability insurance;

5. I must not have any prosecution pending or in progress, for anything at all.

Not a single one of the above is a requirement of the Act.  They're all slipped in by a bunch of self-serving pen-pushers.

 

Now the money.  As said before, I only sell a surplus of firewood that I accumulate here on the farm each year.  I guess that last winter I sold about £500-worth.  Peanuts.  Some customers drop by for a bucketful - seriously.  £1 a bucket - they chuck them onto the barbie at the end of a party.  Most open up the car-boot and fill it for £20.  Everyone gets to see a meter reading under 20%.  It's relaxed, it's life in the country, it's local, it's take it easy.  But can you see why I'm not happy to spend £500 getting certified, even without the irrelevant hoops?

Woodsure have buried their charges at the end of the Application Form.  You can't get to the costs until you've completed each page of the Application Form up to that point.  That's called 'transparency' in today's double-speak.  But in 2019, they were charging £423 for the first year and £329 every year after that.  Plus a charge for random inspections, plus travel expenses.  No thank you.

 

So, unless I can find a way round it, they've put me out of - very small - business.  Not to mention making life that bit more expensive for the consumer, who has to pay for all this tripe in the end.  

 

 

 

 

[jackpease]

4 minutes ago, dudders said:

I'm the OP that started this thread a zillion years ago! Your post shows you are/were in exactly the same position as myself - selling two year air dried wood picked up along the way from heavy gardening jobs. 

The gold plating of regs as you describe, and the cost, kill the economics.

I just bonfire the trees i come across now as it is not worth transporting wood to the roadside for nowt!

I imagine there are a LOT of small sellers doing likewise

Jack

 

 

 

 

>>>> But the company adds the following demands:

1. They will inspect the premises from which I'm selling - if they don't like it, no certificate;

2. I have to prove to them that I acquire the wood legally.  Simply telling them so is not enough;  

3. Every year, I have to provide them with my previous year's sales figures;

4. I must have public and product liability insurance;

5. I must not have any prosecution pending or in progress, for anything at all.

Not a single one of the above is a requirement of the Act.  They're all slipped in by a bunch of self-serving pen-pushers.

 

Now the money.  As said before, I only sell a surplus of firewood that I accumulate here on the farm each year.  I guess that last winter I sold about £500-worth.  Peanuts.  Some customers drop by for a bucketful - seriously.  £1 a bucket - they chuck them onto the barbie at the end of a party.  Most open up the car-boot and fill it for £20.  Everyone gets to see a meter reading under 20%.  It's relaxed, it's life in the country, it's local, it's take it easy.  But can you see why I'm not happy to spend £500 getting certified, even without the irrelevant hoops?

Woodsure have buried their charges at the end of the Application Form.  You can't get to the costs until you've completed each page of the Application Form up to that point.  That's called 'transparency' in today's double-speak.  But in 2019, they were charging £423 for the first year and £329 every year after that.  Plus a charge for random inspections, plus travel expenses.  No thank you.

 

So, unless I can find a way round it, they've put me out of - very small - business.  Not to mention making life that bit more expensive for the consumer, who has to pay for all this tripe in the end.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Chalgravesteve]

25 minutes ago, Haironyourchest said:

I think he 

I think he said he heats the kilns with wood burners...to be fair.

 

Indeed I do.

 

I have large accumulator tanks so that the boiler can be fired in the most efficient manner. I also only process arb waste from local tree surgeons, who bring me their chip and logs on a daily basis. We burn the crap bits to produce the heat and process the easy bits to make the firewood. The tree surgeons work within 10/15 miles on my place and I deliver in the same area. So our kiln dried firewood has travelled no more than 30 miles in its entire life.

 

I think that's a reasonably sustainable set up. 

[renewablejohn]

1 hour ago, Chalgravesteve said:

Indeed I do.

 

I have large accumulator tanks so that the boiler can be fired in the most efficient manner. I also only process arb waste from local tree surgeons, who bring me their chip and logs on a daily basis. We burn the crap bits to produce the heat and process the easy bits to make the firewood. The tree surgeons work within 10/15 miles on my place and I deliver in the same area. So our kiln dried firewood has travelled no more than 30 miles in its entire life.

 

I think that's a reasonably sustainable set up. 

Interested to know how you have managed to be BSL authorised if you only process arb waste from local tree surgeons.

[Puffingbilly413]

19 minutes ago, renewablejohn said:

Interested to know how you have managed to be BSL authorised if you only process arb waste from local tree surgeons.

Not sure it should matter should it? The eligibility seems to be:

 

The RHI Greenhouse Gas (GHG) criteria. Suppliers registering fuel(s) on the
List will be required to verify that the emissions from the cultivation,
processing and transport of the biomass fuel achieves a saving of at least
60% against the EU fossil fuel average for heat, when used in a boiler which
achieves an average of 70% seasonal efficiency (≤ 34.8 g CO2 per MJ),
calculated using the life cycle assessment methodology set out in the
European Commission’s 2010 report on ‘Sustainability requirements for the
use of solid and gaseous biomass sources in electricity, heating and cooling
SEC 2010 65 Final’1.

 

Based on the .gov webpage on it.

[john87]

Let me have a look at my crystal ball a mo....

 

Ah, it is getting clearer.. Loads of mugs will sign up to this scheme and part with £500 plus the other bills they will get for inspections... It wil be a self sustaining thing, the more mugs, the more money, the more interference [at your expense]

 

Emboldened by their growing "audience" of mugs paying them, they will have the money to bribe mp's to pass laws meaning that ALL wood can only be burnt is it is licenced by them.. [even you burning YOUR wood on YOUR fire at home]

 

Now, all you arb types, will find that you have to either;

 

1, Pay a fortune to dump wood at the local tip.

2, Find that you have to take it to the people that make the wood pellet things, pay THEM to take it off you, and they will sell it at VAST expense to their customers..

 

There will only be ONE loser.. You lot..

 

NOBODY will buy your wood just because it says "woodsure" or whatever on it. They will buy what is cheapest from pikeys on Facebook. Do you think the woodsure lot will go to pikey camps??? What do you think...

 

Just ignore them and it will all die the death.

 

They are like the telly licence people, all threats no action.. [trust me on that]]

 

john..

 

[Stubby]

21 minutes ago, john87 said:

Let me have a look at my crystal ball a mo....

 

Ah, it is getting clearer.. Loads of mugs will sign up to this scheme and part with £500 plus the other bills they will get for inspections... It wil be a self sustaining thing, the more mugs, the more money, the more interference [at your expense]

 

Emboldened by their growing "audience" of mugs paying them, they will have the money to bribe mp's to pass laws meaning that ALL wood can only be burnt is it is licenced by them.. [even you burning YOUR wood on YOUR fire at home]

 

Now, all you arb types, will find that you have to either;

 

1, Pay a fortune to dump wood at the local tip.

2, Find that you have to take it to the people that make the wood pellet things, pay THEM to take it off you, and they will sell it at VAST expense to their customers..

 

There will only be ONE loser.. You lot..

 

NOBODY will buy your wood just because it says "woodsure" or whatever on it. They will buy what is cheapest from pikeys on Facebook. Do you think the woodsure lot will go to pikey camps??? What do you think...

 

Just ignore them and it will all die the death.

 

They are like the telly licence people, all threats no action.. [trust me on that]]

 

john..

 

I like the cut of your jib John ! 👍

[dudders]

41 minutes ago, john87 said:

Let me have a look at my crystal ball a mo....

They are like the telly licence people, all threats no action.. [trust me on that]]

 

john..

 

Agreed it's only going to get worse.  Ultimately they want to get rid of wood-burning altogether - any amount of smoke will be too much smoke.  This is the thin end of a long wedge.

 

I've got some local guy on the Nextdoor forum complaining about bonfires and wood-fires.  He's asthmatic and says any amount of smoke makes his life a misery.  People like that will swing it in the end.  

 

But I don't know about them taking no action.  Enforcement is down to County Councils.  If they get a whiff of someone selling wood illegally, it's an easy way to slip another £300 into the coffers.  I reckon it's better to be prepared for the snoopy geezer and be able to show evidence that it's run to the letter of the law.

Edited January 24, 2022 by dudders