Environment bill 2020

[openspaceman]

21 minutes ago, nepia said:

That's good to hear!  It backs up my assertion to customers that there's been no drying happening since the end of October (my logs being on the Kent/Surrey border).

The equilibrium moisture content is lower in the SE of England. Beau's Dartmoor is a humid place which is why he struggles to keep seasoned logs below 20% because even under covered storage they can pick up moisture from the air.

 

I don't think this legislation is police-able so it will come down to customer relations, it will be an upset customer that triggers an investigation by trading standards.

[dig-dug-dan]

It's the clowns selling green wood saying its seasoned that's the problem, and even with a licence in place to sell wood, there will still be those who sell without. Same as the waste carriers licence, spraying licence and the running of red diesel in tractors not for agric use. No enforecement ever done, so why will people do it?

[Woodworks]

33 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

The equilibrium moisture content is lower in the SE of England. Beau's Dartmoor is a humid place which is why he struggles to keep seasoned logs below 20% because even under covered storage they can pick up moisture from the air.

 

 

You got it. Some numbers for average humidity (RH) and temp for each month. The numbers are from a fairly fancy weather station we bought

 

September 14.1C     89%RH 

October       10.7C    93%RH

November     7.3C     93%RH

December    5.5C     91%RH

January         6.4C    91%RH

February       5.4C    91%RH

 

Then match each with the wood equilibrium tables or the link and you can see no air dried or kilned dried log exposed to our atmosphere can stay below 20% 

Woodworkers Source: Equilibrium Moisture Content [custom wws]

WWW.WOODWORKERSSOURCE.COM

     

Edited February 21, 2020 by Woodworks

[Stere]

Was trying to educate somone about RH etc, whos stove seller told them that there expensive stove only works with wood below 15%, but they wouldn't believe me   as the stove seller was an "expert".

 

 

[eggsarascal]

6 minutes ago, Stere said:

Was trying to educate somone about RH etc, whos stove seller told them that there expensive stove only works with wood below 15%, but they wouldn't believe me   as the stove seller was an "expert".

 

 

What's that saying (think it was @Big J), selling logs is selling the unprofitable to the ungrateful.

[renewablejohn]

If it stops these idiots with kilns drying wood with wet wood I am all for it. Looks like my solar kiln will be getting a bit more work. As for a moisture content of 20% thats been my guarantee for over a decade.

[Guest Gimlet]

What's the point of kiln-dried logs when they're stored in a customer's shed during a wet winter?

Unless they're delivered straight from the kiln to the fireside log basket they won't stay below 20% for very long. 

 

And where do log merchants store the batches they've dried? Have they all got climate controlled warehouses? Or are they going to have to dry logs one load at a time and deliver them in sealed, heated trucks?  And only on dry days..

 

Is the EA going to recruit a million inspectors to go round the nation's woodsheds with moisture metres? 

 

What a load of fuck-witted shit. This is what happens when Londoners are taught to read and write and allowed to breed.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Gimlet

[Matt Fitzpatrick]

 Picked this from the Gov site
3.1 Wood

Burning wet wood can result in at least twice the amount of smoke emissions than that produced when seasoned or dry wood is burned. When wet wood is burned, the heat output is significantly reduced, and chemicals build up on the inside of the stove and chimney, which increases the risk of chimney fires. We want to reduce the use of wet wood without preventing people seasoning wet wood at home. Wood sold in smaller quantities is more likely to be used immediately, ie without being dried at home. We proposed to limit the sales of wood sold in smaller sizes of packaging to dry wood only.

There was a range of views on our proposals to restrict the sale of wet wood for domestic burning so that only dry wood can be purchased in smaller volumes. Many respondents felt that all wet wood should be banned from sale. Some respondents considered that the 2m³ cut-off point was too high, and the limit should be set at 1m³. There was some concern among small foresters that our proposals could result in buyouts by the bigger suppliers, leading to unnecessary transportation and kiln drying of wood

We intend to take forward our proposal for a mandatory certification scheme demonstrating that wood sold in volumes under 2m³ is dry (less than 20% moisture). We intend that this will apply from one year from publication of the government response. From this time, sales of wet wood in volumes under 2m³ will be prohibited

Feedback from small wood producers was that they may struggle to meet the 20% requirement straight away. We recognise the long term nature of forestry and woodland planting and management, and we fully support these activities. Given this, small suppliers will have an extra year to comply. The government is minded to consider small foresters to be those producing less than 600m³ a year, as those producing less than this volume may find it difficult to invest in the equipment necessary for seasoning. This is to give them time to season their wood down to the required level or consider changes to their business model. A proportionate approach to enforcement will be taken, with enforcement agencies working with and educating small foresters to support them in meeting the new requirements. We consider that the 2m³ threshold represents the right balance based on the range of opinions received.

In line with the views of most respondents, we intend that the prohibition should be delayed for one year to allow existing stocks to be used up, seasoning instructions should accompany all sales of wet wood, and these should be accompanied with a warning advising that the wood is not suitable to be burnt without appropriate drying. Retailers will be required to store seasoned wood in such a way as to keep it dry.

Further guidance will be provided in due course.

[Guest Gimlet]

So people will still be able to buy kiln dried wood and then keep it under a tarpaulin in the garden. 

All this will do is put many log merchants out of business, drive a lot of the industry onto the black market, increase theft and illegal scavenging and drive up prices significantly for those who follow the rules. 

But millionaire woke ecomentalist Londoners will be able to feel smug that they're saving the planet. Yep. Another government box ticked..

Edited February 21, 2020 by Gimlet

[renewablejohn]

Makes you laugh with a limit of 2m3 do we assume thats 2 builders bags as they always sell them as a m3.