Two Rope Working Consultation

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

11 minutes ago, htb said:

So we can comment on the draft, and then comment on the revised document?

Sorry, I’m not doing very well here

The ONLY ‘comment’ opportunity is on the draft document as per the current consultation. Thereafter, once revised and finalised it will be a done deal, in effect. Hence imperative to comment now!

thanks..

 

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

5 minutes ago, TIMON said:

 

Hi Paul..

Penny for your thoughts........

Timon

 

Hi Timon, not to pre-empt anything but  the WaH Regs require use of a back-up or safety line, which HSE is now insisting upon, but this can probably be satisfactorily achieved via many routes / mechanisms...including 2-ropes. 
regards and hope you’re well 

Paul
 

[TIMON]

Hi , not to pre-empt anything but  the WaH Regs require use of a back-up or safety line, which HSE is now insisting upon, but this can probably be satisfactorily achieved via many routes / mechanisms...including 2-ropes. 
regards and hope you’re well 
Paul
 

I’m great thanks. I understand. [emoji51]
Have a nice weekend.

[Thesnarlingbadger]

Well I gave it a go (for a brief time) last week.

We were removing a 100ft pine with multiple stems. Two of us were climbing and we had to rig a large amount of it in big sections.

The main problem was the place where the rigging point had to go was right in the middle of us and was a pain with one line let alone two.

It was the largest tree I have done for at least 2 months and I was knocked by the end of the day and cramping up (probably just getting old and Christmas alcohol and food intake probably didn’t help) but if I had to drag 2 ropes around the tree all day I would still be shattered now.

I can still see the benefits in some respects, but for this tree which I would have expected to be perfect for using 2 ropes in it was a flaming nightmare.

I could have climbed it myself but it took 2 of us a full day to get the brash off and it would have taken me 2 days by myself. And then another day and a half to get the timber down and another day or so to get all the timber off site. So we would be looking at a 5 day job as opposed to 3 days. And my quote would go from 2k to 3k and I would have lost the job to the guy who quoted for 3 days work with one line.
I know the AA have said they are going to support us in the change over but they are looking at this from a perspective that we are all working solely in the commercial sector of the industry. I doubt they are going to pop round Mrs smiths house and explains to her why I have quoted £800 to fell her Apple tree.

Rant over. I will keep trying where I can but I am already putting in my risk assessments that using 2 ropes whilst rigging is more of a hazard.

Anyway here is the beauty, really shame to take it down. The tree was 70ish years old, couldn’t believe it when I counted the rings.

[Mesterh]

On 12/01/2020 at 10:32, Mark Bolam said:

If you follow all the rules you may as well be in the box.

 

 

[Mark Bolam]

Do you mean in a box?

[Khriss]

Yup @Thesnarlingbadger that looks like tree I would have said 2Rope it.....then found out the hard way . Good dismantle, lot of work tho'   K

[Marc]

@AA Teccie (Paul)

 

So if the overwhelming response is finding that the two rope working is not practical will the ICOP be revised to show this, or was the consultation for no reason? Would you be able to share the level of response and the percentage of those that felt two rope working is a workable new standard?

Two ropes is simply not an achievable standard work method, not unless you significantly raise the overall standards of training and practical experience in the industry, and even then the predominant anchor point would have to be one but with two ropes. There has been no research/demonstration of how this can be practically applied other than that initially carried out by the HSE which is still relevant.

 

We have been taught for decades on one rope, undergone training and judged competent on one rope , my entire company is based on those trained and proficient using one rope, I understand what is going on and still desperately cling to the hope that our voice will speak up.

 

We will now be put at a commercial disadvantage and frankly to say tough just deal with it, is very unfair. I am one of 3 local AAAC approved contractors, there are another 15 local outfits who are not part of the AA many of whom are not on this forum, or have no care for compliance, standards or meeting the revised ICOP, they just quietly, efficiently and safely get on with their work.

 

I cannot believe that overwhelmingly contractors are happy with this, but if they are i'll tow the line and see what happens. Otherwise we will continue to quietly, safely, efficiently and to a high standard continue our work. 

[Stephen Blair]

16 hours ago, Thesnarlingbadger said:

Well I gave it a go (for a brief time) last week.

We were removing a 100ft pine with multiple stems. Two of us were climbing and we had to rig a large amount of it in big sections.

The main problem was the place where the rigging point had to go was right in the middle of us and was a pain with one line let alone two.

It was the largest tree I have done for at least 2 months and I was knocked by the end of the day and cramping up (probably just getting old and Christmas alcohol and food intake probably didn’t help) but if I had to drag 2 ropes around the tree all day I would still be shattered now.

I can still see the benefits in some respects, but for this tree which I would have expected to be perfect for using 2 ropes in it was a flaming nightmare.

I could have climbed it myself but it took 2 of us a full day to get the brash off and it would have taken me 2 days by myself. And then another day and a half to get the timber down and another day or so to get all the timber off site. So we would be looking at a 5 day job as opposed to 3 days. And my quote would go from 2k to 3k and I would have lost the job to the guy who quoted for 3 days work with one line.
I know the AA have said they are going to support us in the change over but they are looking at this from a perspective that we are all working solely in the commercial sector of the industry. I doubt they are going to pop round Mrs smiths house and explains to her why I have quoted £800 to fell her Apple tree.

Rant over. I will keep trying where I can but I am already putting in my risk assessments that using 2 ropes whilst rigging is more of a hazard.

Anyway here is the beauty, really shame to take it down. The tree was 70ish years old, couldn’t believe it when I counted the rings.

Think you need a new measuring tape! 

[Marc]

1 hour ago, Marc said:

 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Marc
duplicated post