Two Rope Working Consultation

[Chrissy]

I keep seeing the most infuriating comments on social media, things such as 'people are making too much fuss about this', or 'people are too set in their ways'. Looking at the profiles it seems people with this attitude fall into 1 of 2 camps

 

1. Office bods who are little or no climbing experience. If the former, its likely they were never a climber of any note.

 

2. Training providers/bodies...surprise surprise, they are looking to make a tidy profit from all the retraining they can offer, not surprising more of them are on side.

 

I saw a comment from a training provider stating that they were going to be training the other training providers to teach twin rope working. Just what we need, more clueless trainers with no real life experience in the industry teaching even more techniques they are not well versed in.

 

 

[maybelateron]

46 minutes ago, Mr. Squirrel said:

And then I wouldn't be using a setup like that. It's 2020, prussik loops and body thrusting are virtually obsolete in today's industry. 

Agreed about prussic loops in principle, but not the body thrusting so much. One one my men prefers his prussic loops on the grounds that he feels he can't trust a mechanical device like our zigzags not to fail. Each to their own I guess, but he doesn't even use a slack tender pulley - WHAAAAAT??

[maybelateron]

18 minutes ago, Chrissy said:

I saw a comment from a training provider stating that they were going to be training the other training providers to teach twin rope working. Just what we need, more clueless trainers with no real life experience in the industry teaching even more techniques they are not well versed in.

The saying used to be "those who can, do, those who can't, teach". I then thought it was more like "those who can do, those who can't, regulate others".

Maybe the latest version is "those who can, do, those who can't, teach others to teach others".

 

Separate whinge, but on a similar theme: As a former NHS GP I always wondered who was regulating the CQC (Care Quality Commission), but I never managed to find out.

[Mick Dempsey]

It’s not fair to knock the trainers, they’re trying to find a solution and following what they are supposed to do.

 

Low blow imo.

[Pete Mctree]

I feel sorry for the trainers at the moment- there is no relevant ACoP only a directive from the HSE that they have to teach two rope working. 

 

I do question the expertise and experience of the member of the HSE that has enforced this. It may be relevant to other industries but by the decision alone it demonstrates an ignorance of the Arb world.

[The avantgardener]

59 minutes ago, Svts said:

When the owners of training companies are involved in setting out best practice and course content there will always be a conflict of interests

Total crap, who are you talking about here?
I can count on one hand the people who are involved in writing best practice/training for LANTRA/NPTC.

[The avantgardener]

53 minutes ago, Chrissy said:

Training providers/bodies...surprise surprise, they are looking to make a tidy profit from all the retraining they can offer, not surprising more of them are on side.

Usual bull, All new training/assessments have to be done on two ropes, there is no choice in this, there are no retraining requirements for your existing tickets so no extra profits to be made by training providers, the only profit I can see is to kit suppliers.

[Mr. Squirrel]

18 minutes ago, The avantgardener said:

Usual bull, All new training/assessments have to be done on two ropes, there is no choice in this, there are no retraining requirements for your existing tickets so no extra profits to be made by training providers, the only profit I can see is to kit suppliers.

Yeah I can't see a massive advantage to training providers. If anything it'll be a setback, having to buy more kit, maintain more kit and pay more for loler inspections. 

Kit suppliers and manufacturers on the other hand... But I don't imagine any of them are involved in writing up the ICOP/training standards.

[The avantgardener]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Squirrel said:

Yeah I can't see a massive advantage to training providers. If anything it'll be a setback, having to buy more kit, maintain more kit and pay more for loler inspections. 

Kit suppliers and manufacturers on the other hand... But I don't imagine any of them are involved in writing up the ICOP/training standards.

But the training providers haven’t brought this in, HSE have, there isn’t a training provider in the country who would have welcomed the change to a two rope system, they have just had to respond to it and with minimal time.

[Svts]

52 minutes ago, The avantgardener said:

Total crap, who are you talking about here?
I can count on one hand the people who are involved in writing best practice/training for LANTRA/NPTC.

I won't  name names but I've been on a few very poorly delivered courses.  One particular refresher delivered by a pretty prominent member of the training establishment comes to mind. 

Everybody came out wondering why they'd bothered. 

Chap deliveried it parrot fashion all while being massively distracted by a new facet of his business he was setting up. 

To the extent that the one new lad on the course was tutored by a couple of the old hands in a few things he couldn't grasp. 

I had had previous training from this guy years before. He was very good then. 

But that was while he was employed by a college, before he set up his own outfit, and the training didn't come second to the £sss. Not total crap, volume of bums on seats pays the bills. 

There are some cracking trainers out there for sure. But there are a few shockers too.