Background to the HSE decision on two rope working

[Rich Rule]

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

 

As for @Jake Andrews...

 

I have read nothing to suggest Jake has a “hidden agenda”, and I don’t remember ever claiming

that I think he has.

I must have been mistaken when I read your comment then.  

1 hour ago, Bolt said:

 

[Bolt]

7 minutes ago, Rich Rule said:

Now the ICOP has been drafted (I haven’t read it and don't really intend to as quite frankly it is absurd and it won’t have an effect in how I work day to day) you state that MRT says you don’t need to have a rope suitable to descend in one pitch.  Whereas, climbing with a rope in a static configuration, base tie, tip tie, whatever, requires it to be able to reach the floor.

Almost.  To paraphrase the draft ICOP for ‘MRT’ (their phase not mine) the requirements appear to be....

 

You must have a one system that is long enough to reach the ground uninterrupted at any point in the climb (to reach the ground in one pitch in the case of self rescue).

 

You must be attached to a backup system (so this means you actually require two backup systems with you in order to allow for reattachment / rope advance).

 

At least one of your backup systems must be long enough to reach the ground to ensure a backed-up final descent (I.e. from a convenient lowish branch to the ground).
 

Deviations  from this are only for exceptional or emergency situations, and should be satisfactorily  risk assessed prior.

 

(This is from my unreliable human memory.... always happy to stand corrected.)

 

If you are not in the UK, it won’t affect you.  I don’t really see it having a great effect on me either.

 

 

[Bolt]

45 minutes ago, Rich Rule said:

I must have been mistaken when I read your comment then.  

If you see “hidden agenda” that is up to you.

 

I asked him if he possibly had SRT or training on his agenda.

 

He later confirmed  it was training.  Fair enough.

 

I don’t see an agenda by definition as being negative.  
 

If I went to a meeting and they read out the agenda, I wouldn’t bat an eyelid.

If however, the chairman admitted that the meeting had no agenda, I would wonder if I was wasting my time.

If they announced they had a ‘hidden agenda’, I would like to think I would up and leave!

Edited December 24, 2019 by Bolt

[billpierce]

PLEASE reply to the ICoP consultation!
 
Thank you
Paul

Pop a link up again will you or someone? Ta

[Marc Lewis]

Please all respond to the ICoP consultation, the responses from which will be fed back to HSE.
Thank you.
Paul 

How does one respond to the ICoP? How do the thousands of tree surgeons that do not come on this site know about the ICoP let alone respond to it.

[Marc Lewis]

Why are 2 long ropes thàt reach the ground required? Should your main line fail forr whatever reason, you can still decend to the ground using 2 lanyards. It is highly unlikely that you will injure yourself and have your main line fail at the same time or am I missing something?

[Marc Lewis]

Are you sure this is how everyone is currently working though?  I don’t think it is.
 
For work in pretty much ANY garden of a house fed by electric (underground or concentric-service-cable) you can assure me you are currently -and without exception- go off seeking specialist advice and guidance from the owner of the power line before undertaking any work within this distance.
 
Really?  For any electricity cable, overhead or underground.  Impressive.
 
Personally I see this as someone's interpretation of GS6 (+ a spot of hsg47 to demonstrate over-thoroughness ).
 
I see it as far, far in excess of standard procedure for any domestic arb site I have ever been on.
 

But it has always been 15 metres or 2 tree lengths whichever is the greater, just no one adheres to it.

[maybelateron]

On 22/12/2019 at 14:17, Svts said:

Could training and candidate selection help with the human factor?  If some of the woefully trained people I've come across in the last 10 years are anything to go by I think so. 

I think this may be the most important factor of all. I haver seen some experience climbers do crazy things. I saw one guy spike the first 20ft of a Poplar that was leaning over a tarmac surfaced car park. What did he think would be the outcome of a fall??!

 

The reality is some people are just inherently risk takers, while others are not. I have heard many young lads quote the saying that if it's thicker than your wrist it's OK as an anchor point. Do they think that applies even if it is Willow/Poplar and four ft out from the crotch?

 

For years I have climbed with one DRT main line, short strop, and 30ft strop. If I were to cut my main rope I am still able to have another sent up to me, or if I am too high up, be brought up to me. I have never found that my long strop is too short to reach a safe secondary anchor point.

[MattyF]

Agendas ??? I believe we should have one united agenda on this forum and thread and that is make the AA back us and show the HSE what a croc of shite this whole two rope debacle is.
Bill and Marc unfortunately you have to be an AA member I believe to receive the email to reply to the ICop.
This is what is boiling my pish as the will effect the thousands of Arb workers who are not memebers of the AA and there decisions will directly effect there work safety and well being by allowing this to continue.
When the HSE wanted to ban top handled chainsaws I do believe it was paolo bavaresco who came to the rescue.. Why can’t an organisation which is supposed to represent us fight are corner for us.

[Marc]

@MattyF

 

Arboricultural Association - Draft for Consultation: ICoP – Tree Work at Height

WWW.TREES.ORG.UK

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<h2 class= dblue bold >Revised Industry Code of Practice for Arboriculture – Tree Work at...