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Squaredy

When is a cubic metre not a cubic metre?

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Not an entirely new subject I know but the answer it seems is when you buy from Surefire Logs.

 

Up to now I have always processed and kilned my own firewood but I thought I would give these guys a go - wholesale log supplier already processed and kilned and even have the ready to burn accreditation.  It is a new venture from a company called Bicester Woodchip who also trade as Chip Chip, so they have done woodchip and retail firewood for a while and are now getting into wholesale.

 

The reason I was attracted to them is that the logs are UK sourced and they have a depot not too far from me.

 

I was going to get a walking floor lorry load but this wasn't feasible to begin with for me.  So I got a full lorry load of cubic metre bags at a cost of £71.50 per cubic metre delivered plus VAT.  61 bags on a curtainsider.  Nightmare to offload but that is a learning curve for me.

 

My real problem is they are not cubic metre bags.  I did not necessarily expect them to be 1000mm X 1000mm X 1000mm, but I did expect them to be large enough to give a realistic cubic metre when filled with logs.  There were actually two different sizes on the lorry; mainly 800 X 800 X 825 and a few at a slightly larger size of 850 X 850 X 850.  We have measured and the actual volume of logs from the smaller bags is around 0.73 cubic metres and from the larger bags 0.9 cubic metres.

 

So my expected 61 cubic metres of logs is actually about 45 cubic metres.  I have of course contacted Surefire logs and told them the situation, which they are partly accepting.  They are now trying to charge me for 50 cubic metres and I have assured them I will only be paying for the 45 cubic metres they delivered.

 

I am not suggesting they are a bad company to buy from but I would stay clear of the bulk bags.  I assume the volume would be much less open to interpretation for a walking floor lorry, so that is what I will try next time.  The logs themselves seem pretty good, but I am still testing samples for moisture.

 

Anyone else tried them yet?

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I think you are being very generous suggesting they are not a bad company to buy from. If they are a firm who sell logs by the cubic meter who short change you I would be fuming. They must know bloody well what they are doing or be completely incompetent.

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Indeed WW, but the(since defunct) company the wife was buying coffee beans off were selling 900 grammes  as 1.0 Kg.

Their "excuse" was they did not have scales and they were Kg bags!

As they say "worth a punt"

P.S.

Might just be worth getting Weights and Measures involved?

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2 hours ago, Squaredy said:

Not an entirely new subject I know but the answer it seems is when you buy from Surefire Logs.

 

Up to now I have always processed and kilned my own firewood but I thought I would give these guys a go - wholesale log supplier already processed and kilned and even have the ready to burn accreditation.  It is a new venture from a company called Bicester Woodchip who also trade as Chip Chip, so they have done woodchip and retail firewood for a while and are now getting into wholesale.

 

The reason I was attracted to them is that the logs are UK sourced and they have a depot not too far from me.

 

I was going to get a walking floor lorry load but this wasn't feasible to begin with for me.  So I got a full lorry load of cubic metre bags at a cost of £71.50 per cubic metre delivered plus VAT.  61 bags on a curtainsider.  Nightmare to offload but that is a learning curve for me.

 

My real problem is they are not cubic metre bags.  I did not necessarily expect them to be 1000mm X 1000mm X 1000mm, but I did expect them to be large enough to give a realistic cubic metre when filled with logs.  There were actually two different sizes on the lorry; mainly 800 X 800 X 825 and a few at a slightly larger size of 850 X 850 X 850.  We have measured and the actual volume of logs from the smaller bags is around 0.73 cubic metres and from the larger bags 0.9 cubic metres.

 

So my expected 61 cubic metres of logs is actually about 45 cubic metres.  I have of course contacted Surefire logs and told them the situation, which they are partly accepting.  They are now trying to charge me for 50 cubic metres and I have assured them I will only be paying for the 45 cubic metres they delivered.

 

I am not suggesting they are a bad company to buy from but I would stay clear of the bulk bags.  I assume the volume would be much less open to interpretation for a walking floor lorry, so that is what I will try next time.  The logs themselves seem pretty good, but I am still testing samples for moisture.

 

Anyone else tried them yet?

how do you get 0.9 of a cube out of a 850x850x850 bag which = 0,614125 of a cube if they are selling and advertising them as a cube, thats not right and breeching some trading standards some where, if i was in your shoes i would mention that and if they dont want to play ball just ask them to come and collect there logs, give em 5 working days then tell them you will be charging a storage rate,

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1 minute ago, spuddog0507 said:

how do you get 0.9 of a cube out of a 850x850x850 bag which = 0,614125 of a cube if they are selling and advertising them as a cube, thats not right and breeching some trading standards some where, if i was in your shoes i would mention that and if they dont want to play ball just ask them to come and collect there logs, give em 5 working days then tell them you will be charging a storage rate,

Well the bags do bulge, and sag and stretch, so the smaller bags on the face of it would only give 0.512 cubic metre, but they are in fact yielding 0.73 or thereabouts.  I guess if they were using 1000 X 1000 X 1000 bags they would actually contain about 1.2 cube.

 

I will not lose out on this one as I am only going to pay for the volume they actually delivered.  Luckily I did not pay in advance.  If they are not happy with that they can take me to court, and I will go to court with all the evidence I need to prove my case.  I mainly just wanted to warn other Arbtalkers what to expect as I have no doubt some have been contacted by the firm offering their products.

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Are these volumes in bags just loosely chucked in, and did you empty each bag and stack it neatly in to piles to measure 

 

just asking for a friend that buys bags of logs and never stacks  just used from the bag..

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Bags are a nightmare

Did you take off 40mm for the seams ?
A 120 micon thick bag which most bags are has a stretch of about 15-20% but that is on soil, sand or ballast, not sure on logs.
At best I would think you have 0.6 in the smaller ones and 0.7 in the bigger ones.
We had all this getting the correct size bags for our topsoil, we now use thicker micron bags to limit stretch and a calibrated bucket to fill them.

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25 minutes ago, Wedgebanger said:

Are these volumes in bags just loosely chucked in, and did you empty each bag and stack it neatly in to piles to measure 

 

just asking for a friend that buys bags of logs and never stacks  just used from the bag..

No I am talking about loose measure as delivered and then when we measured.

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5 minutes ago, scraggs said:

Bags are a nightmare

Did you take off 40mm for the seams ?
A 120 micon thick bag which most bags are has a stretch of about 15-20% but that is on soil, sand or ballast, not sure on logs.
At best I would think you have 0.6 in the smaller ones and 0.7 in the bigger ones.
We had all this getting the correct size bags for our topsoil, we now use thicker micron bags to limit stretch and a calibrated bucket to fill them.

I measured the internal size of the bag - ie the usable size of the bag.  The seller may have been measuring the bags including the seams as you suggest.  The point is he offered to sell me a certain number of cubic metres of the product.  It is up to him to ensure that is what I receive.  If the bag he uses will not hold a cubic metre he should either use a larger bag or more bags to make up the agreed volume.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens if I ever buy a walking floor lorry load from the company.  Will they measure the outside dimension of the lorry to calculate the volume......?

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