New laws on woodburners

[Woodworks]

1 minute ago, SteveA said:

 

 

p.s.... I'm not talking bollocks about the 1/8th amount of wood required. They are very different tech to wood burners. 

I also find that very hard to believe. If they are that good surly there would some more domesticated versions brought to the market. Yes they are large and unusual but needing an 1/8 of the fuel would be very enticing. Never used one so will keep an open mind but seen the Hookway retort demoed and that needed plenty of fuel to get the wood out gassing. 

[SteveA]

25 minutes ago, Woodworks said:

I also find that very hard to believe. If they are that good surly there would some more domesticated versions brought to the market. Yes they are large and unusual but needing an 1/8 of the fuel would be very enticing. Never used one so will keep an open mind but seen the Hookway retort demoed and that needed plenty of fuel to get the wood out gassing. 

Sounds too good to be true doesn't it... well, it is true!

People have and still are fitting them in other countries, the UK is somewhat lacking in going with it.

 

The Hookway retort is a glorified rocket heater; kind of similar in the 'rocket' concept but also quite different in design .... what I'm talking about here is a Rocket 'Mass' Heater which will happily melt metal in and around the first area of the burn tube.

A 'batch box' rocket mass heater can have a more traditional door (similar in style to a woodburning door/ glass door) where you shove a load of wood in and light that, close the door and let it burn out, or feed more in.
The 'mass' is heated up and behaves like a big thermal battery.... slowly releasing the heat.

Cheers, steve

 

 

[Alycidon]

The is all about Lot 20 EcoDesign,   a proposed Europe wide directive on stoves.   It increases minimum efficiency from 65% today to 68% and reduces emissions.

 

At present there is no implementation date but 2022 was proposed.  At that time it would be illegal to sell a new stove that did not conform to the new regs.  There is no retrospective requirement to replace older equipment.

 

At present it looks like most of the EcoDesign ready stoves currently in the market are dedicated wood burners,  solid fuel is simply to dirty.  However technology is moving forward all the while and there are a few EcoDesign compliant multifuel stoves starting to appear.

 

The days of being able to burn overnight will be gone, to get the efficiency and emissions figures you wont be able to close a stove right down,  reduce it yes but not close it right down.

 

Many manufacturers are today producing stoves that are EcoDesign compliant,  currently about 12 in my showroom are compliant.  Older dirtier designs are being discontinued already.  But some are stocking their heads in the sand saying these are proposed euro regs and may not happen in the UK with Brexit etc.  Some smaller manufactures are likely to go to the wall as they are financially unable to redesign all their range and get them all tested.  

 

Annoyingly the main sources of pollution from burning wood are caused by wet wood and open fires,  usually working in conjunction with each other,  but there seems to be no intention to ban open fires or to criminalise the sale of wet wood for immediate use.

 

Kiln dried is not necessarily the solution,  last winter I had issues with one of the wood fired cookers I sold,  they were burning kiln dried Beech,  7% on the outside but 35% + in the middle, made hell of a mess of the flue ways in the cooker.   I have this week been cutting mixed hardwood that I split from large diameter trunks a year ago,  moisture content was 5% - 10%.   Bark has long fallen off so wood dried nicely,  down 5 years maybe 6.  Its the internal moisture content thats important not the fact that its seen the inside of a kiln.   An awful lot of stuff that has been into a kiln has not been in there for long enough and is dry on the outside but not in the middle.

 

A

 

A

[difflock]

I would always cut the log or billet in half, then probe the centre of the freshly exposed cut end.

I wish I had kept splitting a month ago to have availed of the past couple of weeks of phenomenal drying weather here in Co. Antrim.

mth

[Martin du Preez]

ok so surely the contribution from burning wood is to have come from biomass stations? and where did you get that figure from in the first place? also no ones sitting with their face over the chimney, there would never be a enough of a concentration of wood smoke in say teh countryside where most people have them, to have any significant affect on health

 

[openspaceman]

41 minutes ago, Martin du Preez said:

ok so surely the contribution from burning wood is to have come from biomass stations? and where did you get that figure from in the first place? also no ones sitting with their face over the chimney, there would never be a enough of a concentration of wood smoke in say teh countryside where most people have them, to have any significant affect on health

 

Are you referring to something I posted?

[skyhuck]

On 23/05/2018 at 20:08, Martin du Preez said:

Sorry for the language but what a load of fucking bull shit. No I'm sorry stoves are efficient if used properly. Wood smoke isn't going to kill anyone, it's been happening for centuries and now they want to stop us having a fire? This country is actually a joke. They are insignificant compared to other sources of pollution. What about all the people who have built a lively hood selling firewood? Forestry? All the habitat made from turning land into woodland for firewood. Fucking joke. Sorry again for the language but this irratates me

You sound very much like those within the tobacco industry back in the day. You are just ranting, not really building any sort of constructive argument.

[difflock]

There are however quite a few complete nutters "ranting" on other/another forum about deadly woodsmoke "killing" them, in one case it was about the smell of the neighbours woodsmoke.(but I  bet the complainant used plenty of aerosol products and perfumes!)

Personally I buy into the balanced viewpoint, that mankind evolved to deal with reasonable airborne particulate matter, like simple dust from the natural environment, and that the particularly sensitive outliers should not be pandered too, especially if, as I suspect, there is/was probably parental over-medication, over cleanliness, etc etc leading to the asthma and allergies.

Like our disgustingly healthy 25 year old Son, was "diagnosed" with breathing difficulties/bad chest=needing antibiotics when little more than a baby.

Which he did not get, well he got one dose, then I dug my heels in.

Unsurprisingly, to a country bred and reared person anyway, he lived!

In my experience Nurses are the worst for over medicating themselves and their children.

P.S.

I understand there is a growing realization/acceptance, within at least some of the medical community,  that babies and toddlers require exposure to "germs" to develop their natural immune system defences, this means allowing our children to get sick & spotty & snuffle and snotter.

Without dying.

Tough love.

mth

Edited May 25, 2018 by difflock

[skyhuck]

28 minutes ago, difflock said:

Personally I buy into the balanced viewpoint, that mankind evolved to deal with reasonable airborne particulate matter, like simple dust from the natural environment,

The problem with evolution is it merely requires you to live long enough for you to breed and raise those young. 

 

In fact it could be argued that dying in late middle age could be beneficial to us as a species, freeing up resources such as food, plus not becoming a burden to those younger and more productive.

[Rough Hewn]

I'm told it's illegal in France to have any sort of bonfire anytime of year now.

 

the human respiratory system has some defence against wood smoke. But look into what's happening in Africa and Asia about air pollution in huts with no chimney.

serious breathing difficulties and lung problems after decades.

new designs of mud/stone/clay which are similar to rocket stoves are much cleaner burn, which then increases longevity.