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6 hours ago, Woodworks said:

This is my argument against.

The argument against is if your customers don't like it

6 hours ago, Woodworks said:

 

 

Yes no denying it burns fine but it's not massively cheaper per tonne. When wet is just about as heavy as hardwood and when dry is a lot lighter. Working on 4kWh per dry kg I would not be surprised if hardwood worked out cheaper overall. Plus the hardwood is more energy dense which is nice for the customer for storage and nice for me doing the deliveries.

 

I should sit down some time and put some numbers too it.

What's wrong with doing that now?

 

1m3 solid pine is  1.02 tonne, it contains 410kg of dry wood

1m3 solid beech is 1.03 tonne and contains 550kg of dry wood

 

So as long as the bulk density after splitting is the same  then the load of pine has 75% of the weight of the beech for the same volume and moisture contents. The calorific values are similar with the pine about 5% higher than the beech by weight. You have to process about a third more volume of pine for the same weight.

 

The biggest thing is you have to lose far more moisture with the pine, no big deal if you are  air drying but significant if kiln drying.

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What's wrong with doing that now?
 
1m3 solid pine is  1.02 tonne, it contains 410kg of dry wood
1m3 solid beech is 1.03 tonne and contains 550kg of dry wood
 
So as long as the bulk density after splitting is the same  then the load of pine has 75% of the weight of the beech for the same volume and moisture contents. The calorific values are similar with the pine about 5% higher than the beech by weight. You have to process about a third more volume of pine for the same weight.
 
The biggest thing is you have to lose far more moisture with the pine, no big deal if you are  air drying but significant if kiln drying.
Your weights are out. If they were correct both pine and beech would sink in water which they don't. 1m3 of water weighs 1tonne so 1m3 of wood that floats must weigh less.

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19 minutes ago, muttley9050 said:
21 minutes ago, openspaceman said:
What's wrong with doing that now?
 
1m3 solid pine is  1.02 tonne, it contains 410kg of dry wood
1m3 solid beech is 1.03 tonne and contains 550kg of dry wood
 
So as long as the bulk density after splitting is the same  then the load of pine has 75% of the weight of the beech for the same volume and moisture contents. The calorific values are similar with the pine about 5% higher than the beech by weight. You have to process about a third more volume of pine for the same weight.
 
The biggest thing is you have to lose far more moisture with the pine, no big deal if you are  air drying but significant if kiln drying.

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Your weights are out. If they were correct both pine and beech would sink in water which they don't. 1m3 of water weighs 1tonne so 1m3 of wood that floats must weigh less.

 Try it, it actually depends on the time of year and which part of the tree but they both sink in spring.

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I sell mine as stovemix, a random mix of hard and soft. I have an 85% returning customer ratio and of the other 15% who don't just reorder, they usually buy a pile of wet crap from somewhere and then come back to me once they have tried it.

 

I explain to all my customers, that its how dry it is, is vastly more important than whether its hardwood or softwood. Wet hardwood buggers up your flue as well. 

 

So I reckon mine is about 50/50 hard/soft mixed together. 

 

   

Edited by Chalgravesteve
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7 hours ago, Woodworks said:

Presume that one was aimed at me.

It wasn't aimed at anybody really, sorry if you thought it was.

 

I'm a user of firewood rather than a buyer or seller and I never really get this softwood v hardwood thing as when they are dry they are usually both the same (ish).

A different matter of course if you are a seller and all your customers insist on hardwood or big discount.

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1 hour ago, muttley9050 said:
1 hour ago, openspaceman said:
What's wrong with doing that now?
 
1m3 solid pine is  1.02 tonne, it contains 410kg of dry wood
1m3 solid beech is 1.03 tonne and contains 550kg of dry wood
 
So as long as the bulk density after splitting is the same  then the load of pine has 75% of the weight of the beech for the same volume and moisture contents. The calorific values are similar with the pine about 5% higher than the beech by weight. You have to process about a third more volume of pine for the same weight.
 
The biggest thing is you have to lose far more moisture with the pine, no big deal if you are  air drying but significant if kiln drying.

Read more  

Your weights are out. If they were correct both pine and beech would sink in water which they don't. 1m3 of water weighs 1tonne so 1m3 of wood that floats must weigh less.

Yes beech can sink in water. Had a thread years back on the same lines. Posted a picture of the sample of beech sitting at the bottom of a filled bucket. Never tested fresh softwood but my back says it's not far off the weight of beech

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Round here softwood is almost half price, £40.00 per cu.m collected vs £77.00 for hardwood.   Mostly we use stuff from our own trees but I think we may need a top up, so at those prices guess which I'm going to go for.

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30 minutes ago, Woodworks said:

Yes beech can sink in water. Had a thread years back on the same lines. Posted a picture of the sample of beech sitting at the bottom of a filled bucket. Never tested fresh softwood but my back says it's not far off the weight of beech

...but do you think your processing costs go up 30% for softwood. I simply don't know as when I did firewood over 20 years ago my customers would not consider softwood and I think Richard still finds the same.

 

I never really costed the wood into my operation  so the even if I could have sold it the extra labour and handling would have militated against it.

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13 minutes ago, openspaceman said:

...but do you think your processing costs go up 30% for softwood. I simply don't know as when I did firewood over 20 years ago my customers would not consider softwood and I think Richard still finds the same.

 

I never really costed the wood into my operation  so the even if I could have sold it the extra labour and handling would have militated against it.

Processing and delivery, I dont know to be honest. I sell softwood for £70 per cube as opposed to £100 for hardwood. Think this means the customer should at least get as many kWh per pound. I can sell it when I push it but dont get customers asking for it. At the end of the day the customers want as much energy as possible in as little space as possible and this is reflected in the fact a lot of them use coal as well as wood. Softwood is at the other end of scale for energy density.

 

Also I am trying to maximise profit for the smallest turnover as space is limited. No interest in selling 1000s of cube for diddly squat

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