Alternative ways to structure a tree business?

[Mick Dempsey]

8 hours ago, chopper brown said:

It's just a shame because some of the simplest ideas are the best. Unfortunately what is promised and what actually occurs is rarely the same. 

 

My mate works for a high end garage spannering and as a bonus they used to stock pile the scrap and weigh in for a monthly bonus. 

 

The powers that be smelt the money and the staff were told that the scrap needed to be disposed of by there means!

Sounds normal to me. Just because the staff started to sell the scrap doesn’t mean they have a right to it.

[Steve Bullman]

1 hour ago, Mick Dempsey said:

Sounds normal to me. Just because the staff started to sell the scrap doesn’t mean they have a right to it.

To be fair he didn’t state if the garage had given permission for them to sell the scrap of if they just helped themselves 

[Vespasian]

If the problem seems to be holding onto staff then theres a ready answer out there..

 

Instead of thinking money, think treats..  take your staff for a meal, a day out with pay climbing Snowdon(one of my favorites)..  

 

If staff can see past the grind and occasionally expect a treat they're more likely to stick around..

 

 

[sedgemoortree]

 

The problem were having is finding staff not keeping them but I wouldn’t want to lose any. 

We are always looking to improve our working conditions in general taking the Richard Branson approach of “ look after your staff and they will look after your customers” ( or something similar).  

• We buy them the best PPE, through a team decision, Protos helmets with SENA, air stream boots, husqvarna Technical extreme trousers. 
• We give a clear clear progression/pay scales based on the R2 but modified for us so everybody knows when & how to get a pay rise.
• A 6 hour on site pricing scheme, for the bulk of our work so less rushing to get home and reduced time pressures.
• A basic bonus scheme on larger jobs if the guys want to work over or make up a man day etc and save time on a job we share out the saving between them. 
• Everyone gets an extra days holiday for every year worked as a loyalty reward.
• Everyone gets a paid day off to the Arbshow because we think its important to keep upto date and keep an interest.
• Bags of overtime if wanted especially in the winter months some of our guys doubled there wages this month, through call outs and double time etc
• Provide training above the needs of the business to help with career progression/pay rise or maintain interest. 

Currently looking at a profit share or enhanced pension contribution still discussing with our accountant although both option appear to be  quite straight forward.

 

This has been developed over the years to help make it nice place to work and to stop good guys leaving. I think a sense of ownership is very important regarding breakages and lost time incidents, ( we tend to lose small items of kit on site) peer pressure is far better than management pressure so a profit share is definitely on the cards.

 

I’m not sure I’d ever reward a subby the same way as employed staff as I think that would send out the wrong message, we just say thank you and pay them straight away, the extra 40% is more than enough in my mind. In principle I don’t like using subcontractors but with the lack of applicants to our vacancies we have little choice.  The subbies that are any good either get a job ( on the books ) either with us or someone else or decide to start there own bona fide business.  I have offered a PAYE job to the current subby but he seems reluctant to commit.

 

Fingers crossed no ones thinking of leaving!

 

[billpierce]

 
The problem were having is finding staff not keeping them but I wouldn’t want to lose any. 
We are always looking to improve our working conditions in general taking the Richard Branson approach of “ look after your staff and they will look after your customers” ( or something similar).  

• We buy them the best PPE, through a team decision, Protos helmets with SENA, air stream boots, husqvarna Technical extreme trousers. 
• We give a clear clear progression/pay scales based on the R2 but modified for us so everybody knows when & how to get a pay rise.
• A 6 hour on site pricing scheme, for the bulk of our work so less rushing to get home and reduced time pressures.
• A basic bonus scheme on larger jobs if the guys want to work over or make up a man day etc and save time on a job we share out the saving between them. 
• Everyone gets an extra days holiday for every year worked as a loyalty reward.
• Everyone gets a paid day off to the Arbshow because we think its important to keep upto date and keep an interest.
• Bags of overtime if wanted especially in the winter months some of our guys doubled there wages this month, through call outs and double time etc
• Provide training above the needs of the business to help with career progression/pay rise or maintain interest. 

Currently looking at a profit share or enhanced pension contribution still discussing with our accountant although both option appear to be  quite straight forward.
 
This has been developed over the years to help make it nice place to work and to stop good guys leaving. I think a sense of ownership is very important regarding breakages and lost time incidents, ( we tend to lose small items of kit on site) peer pressure is far better than management pressure so a profit share is definitely on the cards.
 
I’m not sure I’d ever reward a subby the same way as employed staff as I think that would send out the wrong message, we just say thank you and pay them straight away, the extra 40% is more than enough in my mind. In principle I don’t like using subcontractors but with the lack of applicants to our vacancies we have little choice.  The subbies that are any good either get a job ( on the books ) either with us or someone else or decide to start there own bona fide business.  I have offered a PAYE job to the current subby but he seems reluctant to commit.
 
Fingers crossed no ones thinking of leaving!
 

From what you said You sound like a very fair employer.

Having been self employed for over a decade I can see why no matter how good the job looks it's hard for a subby to take on a full time job. Ime you quickly get used to being your own boss and deciding your own holidays and what you want to do from day to day etc, basically it's a lifestyle choice.

Whilst I would enjoying doing stints working for a firm and have no issue with authority ( whilst on site) long term I wouldn't be able to give up the freedoms being s.e gives.

[sedgemoortree]

3 hours ago, billpierce said:

Having been self employed for over a decade I can see why no matter how good the job looks it's hard for a subby to take on a full time job. Ime you quickly get used to being your own boss and deciding your own holidays and what you want to do from day to day etc, basically it's a lifestyle choice.

Whilst I would enjoying doing stints working for a firm and have no issue with authority ( whilst on site) long term I wouldn't be able to give up the freedoms being s.e gives.

Fair point,  and I fully understand. I have and will (future good subbies) offered a zero hour contract to help with this scenario, and get them in a uniform without breaching A35 rules for tax liability etc, it would in my opinion be better for both parties but giving essentially the same pick up and put down as required/available principles yet be PAYE and entailed to some of the company benefits. 

[Marc]

I struggle to find good staff, not keep them.

I think Vesspian has a point help your team/employees out, go away on breaks, pay for training, keep a reasonable work load as in don’t beast your guys day in day out.

 

We don’t pay the best rates either, in fact I consistently earned more else where when I freelanced. But as a company we always had work, good work, at a reasonable pace and always pay promptly on time no matter what.

 

I would like to pay more, even match what some of our guys get else where but it’s not going to happen until rates overall improve.

 

On another note, when I did freelance sorry if any of you guys are on here, but to pay me considerably more than your core regulars and treat me like some hot shot climber buying me coffees and treats doesn’t go down well with the rest of your team.

As a counter to that, those that think they deserve more but aren’t willing to apply themselves unless they get it... you got that wrong too.

 

[Dan]

Thanks for the input everyone. 

 

Maybe I should move to Somerset mr sedgemoortree

 

Whats the R2? please can you explain.

 

 

[sedgemoortree]

R2 is the register of tree work operatives http://www.r2register.co.uk/home or was not sure if its still going but there is a list of job descriptions that we have put a pay scale to and defined the criteria for few of the the more open ended criteria. 

 

The idea for us everyone is either working towards the next level or happy with the money they are on, and gives me a baseline to work to when asked for a pay rise. There are several separate enhancements to add descresionary payments when someone you feel deserves more but doesn’t fit into the criteria. An easy and fair way to bench mark guys and give them something to aim for. Should be a link below for an example.

 

Cheers Jim

Job Description - Craftsman Tree Worker PDF.pdf

[Dan]

28 minutes ago, sedgemoortree said:

R2 is the register of tree work operatives http://www.r2register.co.uk/home or was not sure if its still going but there is a list of job descriptions that we have put a pay scale to and defined the criteria for few of the the more open ended criteria. 

 

The idea for us everyone is either working towards the next level or happy with the money they are on, and gives me a baseline to work to when asked for a pay rise. There are several separate enhancements to add descresionary payments when someone you feel deserves more but doesn’t fit into the criteria. An easy and fair way to bench mark guys and give them something to aim for. Should be a link below for an example.

 

Cheers Jim

Job Description - Craftsman Tree Worker PDF.pdf

Cool thanks for that