Local council doing private/contracting work

[simonm]

Wakefield council were asked to remove a huge tree on a golf club that was council owned, the tree was causing structural issues with a private property which was proved on a report. The council wouldn't remove said tree off their own back but said that if the customer paid they would remove the tree causing problems, they also said they had no issue with a private contractor doing the work.

Luckily for us the gentleman who owned the property told the council to do 1 and we removed it. From what I know this has happened a lot in the past few years.

I can understand trying to be self sufficient but a la paid from the public pocket competing against private funded contractors has wrong wrote all over it!

[TIMON]

That's kind of my point, how can they compete against better paid more highly motivated lead climbers at companies who have better teams and kit.

 

 

 

I know our local city council has been trying to get a commercial team up together to compete against local firms but judging by the ads they are struggling.

 

 

I know, if they had to compete on a level playing field they would really struggle. Once they had bought the obligatory £35k welfare vans and factored in all of the inefficiency that is culturally embedded in that sector it's hard to see how they could be competitive.

 

 

Timon

 

"He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep in order to gain what he cannot lose"

[digaholedumper]

I know, if they had to compete on a level playing field they would really struggle. Once they had bought the obligatory £35k welfare vans and factored in all of the inefficiency that is culturally embedded in that sector it's hard to see how they could be competitive.

 

 

Timon

 

"He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep in order to gain what he cannot lose"

 

Just picked up on this thread, One of our local County Councils had created their own " Hire department " To hire the kit off them selves, I have heard favoured sub contractors are also hiring the kit to do private jobs, to get better neutrulization of the machinery " from the Councils prospective " They are also using a full team of sub contractors to do the tree works they cant do them selves,

[digaholedumper]

Just picked up on this thread, One of our local County Councils had created their own " Hire department " To hire the kit off them selves, I have heard favoured sub contractors are also hiring the kit to do private jobs, to get better neutrulization of the machinery " from the Councils prospective " They are also using a full team of sub contractors to do the tree works they cant do them selves,

 

Another local County Council is providing a HGV mot prep & monthly inspection service for haulage contractors in their area, this they say is to keep their workshop profitable so it is not closed, if it keeps their fitters in work it cant all be bad, " or can it "

[skyhuck]

IME councils tend to be "law unto themselves"

 

I guess WE need to step up and hold them to account.

[Macaulay]

That's kind of my point, how can they compete against better paid more highly motivated lead climbers at companies who have better teams and kit.

 

 

 

I know our local city council has been trying to get a commercial team up together to compete against local firms but judging by the ads they are struggling.

 

 

They don't have to be competitive they can underprice every job they look at and pass on the loss to the tax payer!

 

I have experienced this first hand.. Arb Manager/ Tree officer (yes he had two roles) prices a job to take 5 hours.. it takes 10 hours!

 

Said manager then tells us to only book 5 hours as private work and book the rest as council hours!

 

Said manager then gets high fives from senior management for delivering on the private work but nobody is the wiser because nobody is monitoring the council work.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

IME councils tend to be "law unto themselves"

 

I guess WE need to step up and hold them to account.

 

 

👍🏻 spot on. I'll be looking at government accounting regs this week.

[Steve Bullman]

They don't have to be competitive they can underprice every job they look at and pass on the loss to the tax payer!

 

I have experienced this first hand.. Arb Manager/ Tree officer (yes he had two roles) prices a job to take 5 hours.. it takes 10 hours!

 

Said manager then tells us to only book 5 hours as private work and book the rest as council hours!

 

Said manager then gets high fives from senior management for delivering on the private work but nobody is the wiser because nobody is monitoring the council work.

 

Noting surprises me anymore these days:001_huh:

[Taupotreeman]

I can only pass this on from a New Zealand point of view but;

 

We looked at doing private work in conjunction with our Council duties but we decided it wouldn't sit well with local private contractors or ourselves. It also proved way to complicated to work out how to operate and our main concern was to provide the rate payers a service. We have more than enough tree work to keep us occupied.

 

Council equipment is budgeted for in capital expenditure just like most arb companies. We didn't get the best of equipment and we certainly didn't get the worst. Often, where it falls down is with wages. We have a set pay structure which isn't based on industry rates but, rather, a an internal pay scale. This means that we no longer attract the best arborists. Also, it's council and arborists tend to know they won't get the cream jobs like they would at an outfit which is solely dedicated to tree work.

 

It's not just Councils who can cover the costs of over runs elsewhere. I know, and have worked for, several large tree outfits who are able to "hide" private contract over runs on other large contracts including state owned assets that are being paid for by the tax payer. It's easy to hide a few hundred bucks on a multi million dollar contract on a very regular basis. Auditing is very rare and those doing the auditing really have no idea what they are looking for.

 

From a personal post of view and in regard to the lax attitude of Council staff; I can honestly say I spent years trying to encourage a private entity mindset when it came to production and work ethic but eventually, you get beaten down. Ive spoken to many ex and current council employees and they feel the same. Most don't come to council with the intention of doing naff all but it really does become a case (eventually) of monkey see monkey do.I know staff who have been at Council for over 25 years. They know it's a cushy number and they know how to play the game. My private work is what keeps me sane. In fact, I'm considering giving up the cushy, well paid lifestyle because I miss the hard work, the interaction with others who actually know what they are doing and being able to run a job from go to whoa.

 

There is also the issue of having Managers that have the council mentality ingrained in them as they have been there that long or have never worked in private industry. Managers and supervisors that have been put in the position without having the necessary qualifications or knowledge or skills to be able to do the job (there's a phrase for it but I forget). Very often in the arb industry, you have managers, supervisors etc who have come through the ranks or, in some cases, business managers who are just that and leave the day to day running of operations to those who know what they are doing. Unfortunately, in council, this is often not the case so everything is controlled by a person who knows nothing of the industry. That includes time frames, processes, finances etc. It is very easy for subordinates to "manipulate" managers as the managers have no idea how long a job should take, costs, etc.

 

Under H&S law in NZ the PCBU (person controlling a business undertaking) is now in the gun if a workplace incident/accident takes place so council spends a lot of time and money making sure that they have systems and procedures in place to cover the organisation, CEO etc. We get the usual BS about wanting everyone to go home safe but you can read between the lines with some people. Plus, less accidents equals lower ACC fees in NZ which can be in excess of $1 million.

 

Ive waffled quite a bit and some of it might not make sense in relation to the OP but I'm happy to answer questions I can.

[eggsarascal]

IME councils tend to be "law unto themselves"

 

I guess WE need to step up and hold them to account.

 

The problem IMO is we do nothing until it affects us directly. Then we moan until there is no tomorrow.