TIMON

Only if God loves them...... [emoji51]

Check shirt, beard. Honey bro’s Carrier bags. Can’t miss him..

I’m great thanks. I understand. [emoji51] Have a nice weekend.

Hi Paul.. Penny for your thoughts........ Timon

Welcome mate. [emoji106]

I guess it’s a lot of hassle for little return

You having an AT stand this year Steve?

I’m going

Arboricultural Association - Draft for Consultation: ICoP – Tree Work at Height WWW.TREES.ORG.UK <h2 class= dblue bold >Revised Industry Code of Practice for Arboriculture – Tree Work at Height</h2><h1 class= blue bold display ><span class= blue display >INDUSTRY CONSULTATION</span></h1><h3 class= orange bold >Please submit all responses by Friday 17th January 2020</h3><p class= lead >This is the ‘<a href= https://www.trees.org.uk/Trees.org.uk/media/Trees-org.uk/Documents/ICoP/ICoP-Dec19-ConsultationDraft.pdf target= _blank title= ICoP Draft for Consultation ><span class= bold blue >draft for consultation</span></a>’ for the second edition of the AA’s ‘Industry Code of Practice for Arboriculture – Tree Work at Height’ (ICoP) – First edition published in 2015.</p><p>This revision includes editorial and technical revisions throughout the document but there are specific, significant amendments in:</p><ul class= wia > <li><b>2.8.4 – Crane</b></li> <li><b>2.8.6 – Personal fall protection systems</b></li> <li><b>2.9 – Work positioning and rope access</b></li> <li><b>2.11.6 – [Equipment selection] Performance specifications</b></li></ul><p class= m30 >As with the first edition, the ICoP is aimed at the ‘<b>Responsible Person</b>’ and the ‘<b>Competent Person</b>’ within arboricultural contracting companies. The aim of the ICoP is to identify the principal planning, management and supervisory requirements necessary to establish safe systems of work for tree work operations at height. It is due for publication in early 2020.</p><h3 class= dblue bold >Responses</h3><p>Please read through the draft and make note of any comments. Please then complete the short ‘<a href= https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/2CQ5HB3 target= _blank title= Click here to take the survey ><span class= bold blue >Survey Monkey</span></a>’ questionnaire, adding any extra information where requested.</p><p>If you have a longer or more complex comment or query, please email to <a href= mailto:[email protected] ><span class= bold blue >[email protected]</span></a> with ‘<b>ICoP Draft for consultation</b>’ as the subject title.</p><h4 class= orange bold mt20 >Please submit all responses by Friday 17th January 2020</h4><p>Please use the link below to review the <a href= https://www.trees.org.uk/Trees.org.uk/media/Trees-org.uk/Documents/ICoP/ICoP-Dec19-ConsultationDraft.pdf target= _blank title= ICoP Draft for Consultation ><span class= bold blue >draft for consultation</span></a>.</p><p>You can provide feedback via <a href= https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/2CQ5HB3 target= _blank title= Click here to take the survey ><span class= bold blue >Survey Monkey</span></a> using the link below or the links within the PDF.</p><p class= clearfix mt20 mb20 ><a class= button2 href= https://www.trees.org.uk/Trees.org.uk/media/Trees-org.uk/Documents/ICoP/ICoP-Dec19-ConsultationDraft.pdf >View Draft for Consultation ></a></p><p class= clearfix mb20 ><a class= button2 href= https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/2CQ5HB3 >Take the Survey ></a></p><p>Thank you for taking the time to review the draft for consultation, your feedback is extremely valuable in helping us complete this important new guidance.</p>

I do hope everyone who has posted valid objections to mandatory ‘two rope working’ on here will take the time to read the draft ICOP and fill in the survey. There is a specific component in the survey to voice your objection. The deadline is this Friday the 17th

RIP Neil... one of the best rock drummers ever...

I refuse to take part in this thread on principle.

I did some work on a large oak the other day. Large Co-dominant stems big spread on the canopy. The job was to remove some large overhanging limbs and re-balance the crown. I used two DDRT systems. 1. A VT hitch climber set up on tachyon 2. A Zigzag set up on different coloured tachyon. (And a Petzl Zillon lanyard) The perfect scenario for two rope working. Except.... I could not get a rhythm going to my climbing. This method of climbing is very cumbersome and awkward. There is a lot of extra work involved in managing rope, repeatedly redirecting two 45m rope ends takes considerable energy and hastens the on-set of fatigue (a very real consideration as fatigue plays a part in a lot of accidents) I think there are a myriad of reasons that this method is going to be less safe, even on a job that would apparently lend itself to two rope working. The increase in time cutting with a top handled chainsaw when lactic acid was noticeably present in my muscles was very concerning.. There was a lot of ‘congestion’ of kit attached to my harness. Using both a silky and a top-handle chainsaw, I found it increasingly difficult to use these tools without bringing the sharp edges into contact with the added rope systems. The chainsaw bar and chain in particular kept getting tangled in the trailing ends of the added rope. My ropes got ‘nicked’ a number of times during the climb and seemed to be unavoidable using this method. These are real concerns. If this is the case when working in a large open canopy tree how much worse is this going to get when working in denser canopies and less suitable work situations? This whole thing needs a re-think. It could start with more in-depth training on anchor point selection and how to maintain better work positioning when cutting. The current WAHR principles don’t seem to be the correct way of measuring ARB climbing. To look at enforcing two rope working into the industry in the hope that it will reduce falls from height is one thing, but to do it without looking at the wider implications and other factors and aspects of working from rope in trees seems to be a very blinkered and dogmatic approach. What was true in 2004 is still true today.

Just the fact that they have looked at and then completely dis-agreed with the findings of the HSE/Lane 2004 report shows they have a really big axe to grind over this.

For example.... a very real risk. Modern friction devices such as the Zigzag and Spiderjack are definitely not suited to having another line in close proximity. A sudden loss of friction/grip on a mainline resulting from contact with the second line could easily have catastrophic consequences.

It looks to me like the HSE are not going to be happy with ARB climbing on one rope, period. If you go and look at the wording on the AA website ‘ Background to the decision’ this isn’t something they are going to back down from without massive pushback from the industry. They have looked at the HSE/Lane 2004 document and refuted it. (It’s on there) It’s all very well saying we can ‘risk assess’ two rope working out of the method statement when it isn’t reasonably practicable, but the HSE guys statement that in the event of a prosecution they will not take the definitions of ‘work positioning ‘ or ‘rope access’ into account is very concerning for the ‘Responsible Person’. It basically means that two rope working will be mandatory at ALL times regardless of how rIdiculous or detrimental to efficient climbing it will be. The words ‘reasonable’ and ‘practicable’ are now redundant. And more concerning for people who are responsible for climbers.

White transit tipper stolen last night from the Nuneaton area. NA14 XUD Gutted. Almost a year to the day when one got nicked last year. Locked and immobilised. Happened between 9-11pm. We’re definitely being targeted.

Same here. I printed a copy off today. I can’t understand why the HSE are completely going against the findings of a group of experts they commissioned themselves to look into how viable 2 rope working was/is.

Apparently the US media are quite gutted that an armed churchgoer was able to prevent a mass shooting in Texas.

Talking of books..,,, you finished with my LOLER book? [emoji57]

It’s on my read list. [emoji106]

Just throwing this into the mix..., What about some good guidance and advice from the HSE guy (that can be written into the ICOP and technical guides) about the various situations when 2 ropes are not reasonably practicable..... I’m happy to use a second system when it works and is practical. I’m sorry... but when people start talking about using fall arrest systems in tree work, I feel that we are completely losing our way.

Merry Christmas everyone. Wishing you all a peaceful time and a prosperous 2020. Timon and Lynne