Mr. Squirrel

I tried two ropes in a tree today. I wanted/needed them for a part of it as it was a very broad crown with no middle, it seemed safer. However I continued using them afterwards to see how it was. I never thought about it, but using two systems obviously means you can't climb with 'one hand for the tree' (something I never really appreciated the significance of) as you're constantly needing to mind both systems. So when going out on a branch you can't just walk out while tending your knot and holding on to this for support. I guess you can be constantly lanyarding in just to give your climbing system some slack, or you find yourself trying to balance and stay still while tending knots. This of course increases the risk of uncontrolled swings though. Also as I mentioned in a previous post I had concerns about self rescue capabilities. I also tried this, both tails diverted over a large branch with no obstructions. I couldn't move an inch. Even releasing one and then the other, it simply wasn't possible without pulling through the tail first. The reality of rescues is really rather bleak in my opinion. I know very few climbers who I believe could actually get up and out to an injured climber in time to save them in the event of a chainsaw wound etc. So anything that impedes self rescue is a serious hazard in my mind. I had my access line in, a backup to this would've been impossible, and a rigging line. I found that having that much rope in the tree was more complicated and confusing. All in, from this brief trial, I found using two systems potentially more hazardous as it impedes smooth climbing. There is also, in my mind, a greater risk of injury while rigging due to the number of types in the tree. And then in the event of an accident self rescue will be extremely challenging. I think there's enough material there to justify a tick box on my risk assessment along the lines of '2nd system too dangerous'. I'm not about to start compromising my own safety at work because someone with no concept of the practical implications said I should. This is utterly ridiculous and a disservice to the industry. Edit: For clarity sake regarding my self rescue scenario and crown movement issues I climb on velocity with HRC in a hitch climber setup. I've spent years dialling my system in and it's extremely smooth and we'll tending without being insecure. I can't conceivably alter this to be any slicker without reducing it's functionality.

Having read through the article about these new guide lines a bit more carefully, it seems that body thrusting up, lanyarding in and throwing your rope up will still be allowed. But once you create that top anchor a second system will be required. The use of an access line will require a back up system though, which will require two separate parallel points in the crown. It's weird really, the use of access lines never made it in to the British curriculum as far as I'm aware? Elsewhere they're fundamental to safety at work, provide rapid access in the case of an aerial rescue. What the HSE are now proposing will, I imagine, make them less likely to be used, in favour of getting up there by 'old school' techniques. Really seems like a backwards step pushed by people in suits with no real understanding of what we're doing. Yes, they saw a demo, but did they *actually* understand the job? I wonder if they looked at accident statistics abroad too.

Haha aye... That's all you need a lot of the time for lighter pruning and dead wooding work though isn't it. I guess it also means that as a novice you're perhaps more likely to be up a tree with a more experienced climber who's doing the heavier work. From what I've seen I think it builds a more solid base of climbing ability before you start wielding saws up trees. Also fully agree with Mark though. I think a revision of training + creating a distinction between those who are trying to excel at what they're doing and those who are just mashing trees would be helpful.

I think you're meant to climb with two lines in France but nowhere else. Seems like one of those times British people get a bit overly British and call it law. In addition to what others have said, what about when the worst happens and you're in a rescue scenario? For example, I'm climbing on two hitch climber systems. One of them is a great anchor but the other isn't brilliantly positioned, because that's the reality of it. I'm in 25m tree so in order to reach the ground I've got two 60m climbing ropes. While out on a branch I cut my arm and attempt to self rescue. Lowering through a fork as a natural redirect I attempt to reach the ground, but one arm is injured and I have two systems to operate. Added to that my weight is distributed between two systems, the tail of each is deflected through the limb. In that case I'm not sure you would even move really? It seems to me that the HSE are taking rules and applying them to areas they don't fully appreciate. Tree work is not rope access work. Trees are complex, three dimensional structures which have to be treated as individuals. Forcing more systems on to that environment isn't a fix. Perhaps what they should be looking at is how we train arborists in this country? I could book a few courses and have a chainsaw in a tree ticket within three weeks and go straight in to the industry as a qualified tree surgeon. To me that's vastly inadequate. Colleges pump out new climbers at an amazing rate. And from my own experience, what I learned at college were dated and often inadequate techniques for today's industry. I don't believe much has changed in this respect. In Germany you pass an aerial rescue ticket and then have to log 300 hours in trees before you can get a chainsaw in a tree ticket. I think that approach, forcing people to gain more experience before giving them the responsibility of more dangerous tools, would be far more beneficial to climbers and the industry.

Hoooold up. Did you just call golf a sport? ?

It depends more on your hitch cord/length/knot setup. I've climbed on velocity for years and love it. Had a few other ropes in between but always go back...

I find the tree motion sits best with the buckle probably a little below the height of my pelvis. So most of the padding is below the waist but you can't slip out of it. My first week on the job for a company I was using an Avao and almost packed it in it caused my so much pain. So many things wrong with that harness for me. Everyone's different, try another harness and see how you get on. As said though, sounds like you might just need to stick at it until your core muscles get adapt though.

When you say local market I can't help but think they may have been the profit of a little late night shopping by someone. Never buy second hand ropes, especially from an unknown source. Personally I wouldn't sell them on...

I'm not so much annoyed by this as genuinely surprised. I gave him 6 months when he was first elected.

Yeah should be fine. I've been using one for about 8 years now with a 6m lanyard and it does it all basically. I wouldn't use it for a climbing system, that isn't what it's designed for. But as a secondary system for advancing your tip or positioning on long wobbly branches it should be alright.

I understand that quite well. But when they've got one crew, but two tracked chippers, excess of saws etc. Surely you've worked for guys who just have ALL the kit. My point is that is seems a bit weak saying you can only pay a climber 135/day when you're clearly throwing money at machines etc. A subbies job is to make the boss as much money as possible, but it has to go both ways... As for Europe, that was a while back. Rates have dropped a bit, I presume as there's more competition nowadays and people are willing to work for less. It's still better than the UK pretty much anywhere in mainland Europe but not as profitable for trips over.

A pal of mine tapped his lanyard with a silky, he was just putting in his anchor point so no main line. Went straight through it, he fell ten metres and broke his pelvis and neck, among other things. Gnarly slice that one. And a ballsy request getting a lot to a&e from the customer with your quest squirting ha

I'm pretty cynical about what some people can pay staff. I've had to really stand my ground to get £160, when the boss told me he pays his other climber £135/day. But he was constantly buying kit, saws, vehicles, bits and pieces. It kinda got to me tbh. I know 160 is bang on market average, but after ten years in the industry and a degree in arb, the take home from 160 is hardly worth the effort. So I started my own thing and as said, I pay the guys a bit better, and I earn a bit better. When I was subbing in Europe I charged €400 flat rate and always had a full diary. Different worlds eh?

I see your bracing. How long does it look like it's been in? If it's all tensioned up properly to provide decent static support it may be OK, like a redirect I suppose. But that's quite far up for steel bracing by the looks of it. Also the union doesn't look so bad in the pics that I'd be putting a static cable in it. But then I don't know the position, targets etc. Yes, bit if an odd one...

Hmm, strange. As far as he was aware basically nothing was changing in the supply and sale of them in Germany. Presumably they're still making them in smaller batches in Germany? It wouldn't be the first time the UK has gone really strict with an EU law nobody else bothers with, and blames it on the EU...

Just a wee word on this, I was talking to a Stihl dealer in Germany the other day and he said they have no issues getting 880's in stock still. Yes, they aren't compliant with the latest European emissions laws however as they sell so few of them, the German government deemed it unnecessary to ban their sale. So no panic, it might be more awkward but you can still get one shipped to the UK.

I pay decent climbers with saws etc £200/day up in Scotland. Though that doesn't seem to be the norm. Wish I could pay more but I'm a young business and still finding my feet. People paying £150/day or less are taking the piss quite frankly.

It could also be different genetics... I was at a site yesterday where one big sycamore was in full leaf. There was a smaller sycamore either side where the buds have done nothing. I'm sure they'll get there though. You may be right, but don't jump to conclusions too quickly. Trees have their ways sometime's...

Aside from all of the very justified safety concerns, without any experience it's also very likely you'll do a bad job of pruning work. When it comes to older, more significant trees there's a great deal you can do wrong. And with smaller, younger trees there's the potential to wreck them before they ever reach maturity. There's a lot more to tree work than the manual side of things, there's so much to learn about tree biomechanics, growth patterns, fungal interactions... I'd invest in some books. And get climbers in while you're learning.

I've got the older alloy distels, not dmm ones, and my only complaint is the velcro lowers are really crap. The click ones look great though, I imagine they're decent spikes.

The DPD driver who does my village is great, leaves everything in the log shed or just in the front door if it's unlocked. UPS are awkward buggers though. Bearing in mind I live in rural Scotland, private enclosed garden not visible from the street. Crime isn't an issue. I ordered some wee traffic cones from Honeys and the driver refused to leave them in the log shed incase someone stole them. I mean, seriously. They're traffic cones. I had to drive an hour each way to pick them up from the depot. I've had chainsaws left in the log shed before. Right faff, and why I don't shop from Honeys any more, despite their good service.

I guess the danger is that even with the 'master data base of tree pruning know how' (if one ever gets created I want it to be called that btw), there are always exceptions to the rule. It varies so much, on their position, exposure, immediate environment, soil etc. At which point the operator who actually needs this guide in order to do half decent tree work will probably end up spanking some ancient perfectly retrenched Oak thinking 'well it's only 15m high eh? Can't be that old' Personally I think there ought to be a requirement for education, and if you don't have any formal education you shouldn't be doing tree work. I know there are plenty of folks who know their stuff without an HNC, and others doing crap work despite the qualifications, but it would be a good start. Anyway, no pics but I was on a job today where another firm had done a good ol' topping of a perfectly formed copper beech, leaving the one on the other side of the garden with a large compression fork be. Crying shame.

Ah dear, that's a rough number like... Yeah I've had a lot of contact with them and have a pretty severe skin reaction which gets worse with each exposure. I hardly sleep for about five days and it usually lasts about seven. After years of having a terrible time I tried anti histamines and had a mild itch for a day, that was it. Highly recommend soaking to a doctor and getting done strong anti histamines.

'didn't seem a big issue' somebody obviously didn't do their homework eh...? Germany have spent millions spraying forests with helicopters, and they're still spreading. Thing is that they don't spread 'thinly' either, when they're present, they seem to be present in large numbers. Harsh as it seems I think they should be creating an exclusion zone. Draw a ring on a map and fell a 4 mile wide strip in the oaks throughout. Only issue is they can diversify on tree species. I've found them in red oaks and heard of them in hornbeam and sweet chestnut.

As Khriss said, hairspray bag and burn. I've met guys who wear full waterproofs for it and have someone hose you down afterwards as the hairs can get through the cheap white suits. Invest in a half decent respirator. Where did are you, out of curiosity? Just wondering how far they've spread. I'm so bitter about opm in the UK, it should never have happened, and when it did they should've tested it seriously. It really is horrible stuff...