agg221

I agree with you Geoff on the 'no pickup' thing. I've just picked up a relatively late 090 - notably it still had the old Stihl logo on the starter, with the metal tag label on the top. I'd say mine is 1980s - this saw looks much more modern. The 090 is definitely still about as a special, mostly in Brazil etc, but I'm not sure about the 070 as it has less practical use. The 090 is still the biggest saw made, with enormous torque, so will run a huge bar. The 070 doesn't give you anything useful over an MS880 so very little point in keeping on making it. Alec

I'm suspicious. Not saying this is wrong, but I'm skeptical. There have been some chinese copy 070s around. The bar and chain are Stihl, but they're in very modern packaging - is there an overlap between the end of the 070 and that style packaging being introduced? The 070 is shown in very fresh looking polystyrene, which generally goes yellow with age, but no cardboard box. Why not? Is this a non-AV model - how late were these still being built? It's got all the safety stickers on it under the handle - when were these introduced relative to the model becoming unavailable in Europe? Just sounds a few warning bells, that's all. Alec

Which saw did you go for? The classic book is Chainsaw Lumbermaking by Will Malloff. It's available for a much better price via abebooks.co.uk than anywhere else, or get it from the library. I can't remember whether it covers seasoning or not, but the key points if you have minimal kit and control over your environment are mill from October to March, stack with stickers in vertical lines, about every 2ft down your boards, and do it quickly after milling. Stack in the shade, with an air gap all round, in such a way that rain can't run in on the board surfaces. Let it air dry for six months per inch of thickness. Hope this helps. Alec

Return will, to a large extent, correlate to onward processing skill/appeal of product. There is an assumption I sometimes run across that the value of a butt must be very high, because the finished product you would make from it could potentially be very high. This doesn't take into account the time, effort, external costs and skill (=training/practice which you then recover against the job). I quite often hear on butts 'but that's less than I could sell it for as firewood'. Yes - that's true, but that's because in selling a butt you're not putting in any effort, whereas if you turn it into firewood you are doing all the cutting, stacking, paying for the space while it seasons, then delivering it. If you value that time and fuel cost/wear and tear on kit and compare it with sticking the same butt on someone's trailer and taking the cash, then doing something else with the spare time and cash (like firewooding something less desirable for milling) then overall you come out on top. Boards will only sell to someone who wants to use boards, but that is someone with time and a hobby, or someone expecting to make the cash return on their own time, so they will be deducting the cost of the material from their labour. As such, you get a fair return for your time and effort, if you are efficient, but you will get a pretty poor return vs. a commercial sawmill with a much more efficient set up. You also have to take account of the fact that they will want a particular number of boards, of a particular size, for a particular job. You have to guess what those may be sufficiently in advance of their (unstated) need, so the boards are ready when they want them, or mill to order, or have a large stock hanging about to cover all eventualities. The oak is about the right size for beams - the ratio of diameter to length would be good. It will take you less time than boards, so you will make less cash per tree, but more trees processed per day. Posts will not make much - it wastes a lot of the value of the length so it's a cheaper product. Less niche though (selling a single beam relies on finding someone wanting exactly the right size - a pair of gateposts however don't have to be box heart, and can be sold more readily. You'll get most value if you put in still more labour and turn it into a product - nobody is doing any on-processing so no more margins to account for. However, that takes more time, and more skill, with more risk of getting it wrong and generating more waste. You also need to dedicate more time to sales of end products. Hope this is of some use? Alec

The greenhouse is the trick here. You'll avoid the peach leaf curl and the blossom frosting issues. There's a great book called The Gardener's Assistant, published in the 1880s. It's aimed at head gardeners for big estates (with big greenhouses, or glasshouses as they were then referred to). There's a big section in one volume on the subject of growing fruit under glass, a lot of which is dedicated to peaches and nectarines, both fanned against the rear wall and also grown in pots. Audley End have got some of their kitchen garden operational again, including pot-grown fruit trees, which is quite interesting to see if you enjoy the subject. Alec

Hi Ian, Rob D of this site is your man for Alaskan mills - see chainsawbars.co.uk and get your Arbtalk discount:thumbup: You are correct in thinking that the saws you currently have are too small. You really do need something of 70cc and up. Although the mills are adjustable, the trouble is that by the time you've taken the kerf out with the cut, anything too small a diameter just isn't worth milling. You also want a longer length bar than you think for getting round branch collars and uneven shapes, and because you typically want straight timber, and the log isn't, you will usually lose a bit of the overall width when straightening up the waney edges - sometimes several inches from either side. I can only comment on Stihl saws as I know the model number/cc, but if you want to try it something like a secondhand 044 will run a 24" mill. Since you would need to get the kit anyway, try to get a bar 6" bigger than the mill, and a powerhead that will pull that length bar at top end of its range. This is because the mill clamps to the bar, so you lose the end where roller sprocket is as you can't pinch it, and you lose the other end where the dogs are (unless you can be bothered to take them off) so you actually lose about 7-8" or so of the total bar length, or 6" if you take the dogs off. So an 044 will run a 30" bar, which will give you a 24" cut in a mill etc. Other cheap powerheads are the 051 and 056. Chainbrakes aren't essential for milling as the bar is locked in the frame and buried in the log. The above powerheads can be had on ebay and usually sold on for about as much as you pay. Most more serious milling needs a 36" mill or bigger, which needs a powerhead of 100cc and up to run it comfortably, with the 090 supposedly being the ultimate. Hope this helps. Alec

You're welcome You could pick up a copy of The Fruit Garden Displayed by Harry Baker - really sound book and a good chapter on peaches. A quick google search suggests that you can pick up a secondhand copy for as little as 63p! Alec

The approach I've taken is to use a lot of wood myself and consider the savings, plus I enjoy it. There's only so much furniture a house can take, but sheds, log-store, garden stuff (compost heap, decking, trellis etc) all adds up. If you ever build an extension that can save a fortune. The above doesn't need a fine finish or extreme dimensional accuracy (ever measured timber at a builder's merchants?) The main thing is durable timber (and use hardwood for anything that comes under building regs) - stick to oak, sweet chestnut, robinia or cedar (or yew if you're prepared to face the wrath of others!) and use heartwood only. I reckon I've saved a very significant amount over the years, and it doesn't rely on preservative treatments either. It just means keeping a thought of what you might want to use something for so when it comes along you know what size to cut to, and then having somewhere to store it if you're not doing it immediately. Alec

The trees are pretty hardy - the usual problem isn't damage from frost and wind, it's the fact that they blossom early and the blossom -is- damaged by the frost, plus there aren't many insects about to pollinate, and they are also prone to peach leaf curl. You can deal with the blossom issue by using agricultural fleece, but unless they're the cordon type they won't be cropping much at 5', so you're OK without it for this year. The best bet I've found is to make sure they're covered before the blossom buds start to show pink, then uncover them only to hand pollinate with a small camel hair artist's paintbrush. In theory you can leave the covers off except when frost is expected, but I tend to forget! Peach leaf curl is a fungal infection and is seriously defoliating - it weakens the tree and eventually kills it. The spores are washed around, I think in Spring, so you either need to spray against it or rig a temporary waterproof cover. The above is one of the reasons they're often grown against walls - it's easier to keep them warm and protect against frost, and rig covers or arrange a deep overhang to keep the rain from dripping on the leaves. Alec

You have to be careful with 'resistant'. There are three or four propagation programmes I'm aware of, three in the UK, one in the US. The two UK programmes I have details of have both been based on the presumption that large trees surviving today must be resistant. This doesn't mean they've been tested, so it's a bit of pot luck - did they survive because they were resistant or were they just lucky? Like MattyF I've seen several of the original survivors beginning to suffer. One died, one has come back having lost its top, too early to say on the others. The American propagation programme has been genuinely testing resistance, but this isn't with the English species. There is value in propagating surviving trees though, and planting from this propagation. Unlike ash, which is almost always grown from seed, much of the elm population is propagated from suckers and some species don't form fertile seed in the UK. This means that whereas the ash population is very genetically diverse, much of the elm population is genetically identical. There are certain parts of the country, notably East Anglia, where the Plot elm was prevalent. This is fertile, and hybridizes with the other species, also forming fertile seed. This gives greater genetic diversity, and hence more likelihood of resistance and hence survival. The difficulty here is that the trees have to reach significant age for it to become apparent that they are resistant. This means that in the meantime they are at risk from other factors, and when they do get large they ultimately may die of other, normal causes for large, old trees. They are also, given their relative scarcity, relatively unlikely to end up within pollinating distance of one another, so the resistant gene is unlikely to continue. Propagating from a broad range of survivors, then planting them within pollination distance of one another is likely to result in propagating fertile stock, increasing the likelihood of further genetic diversity and natural expansion in time. They're temperamental to propagate, but not impossible. You need to take cuttings in June, from the current year's growth, then cut the leaves in half to reduce water loss and plunge them an inch or so deep around the edge of a plant pot filled with 50:50 potting compost and sharp sand. Water well and cover with a clear plastic bag to stop them drying out. Ideally you then put them in a propagator with bottom heat, but if you haven't got one some will root if you put them on an East or West facing windowsill indoors. Wait and see what leafs out again in spring, then pot them up the following autumn individually and you're away. There are quite a few big trees around here which I'm trying this with. I don't have a propagator and I can only access very poor growth from ground level, but I have had the odd one take, so it is definitely possible (and a whole lot cheaper!) Alec

Or robinia. Larch is OK outside but not great at the point of contact with the ground. Spruce isn't worth bothering with - it rots off too fast. The alternative of course is to design your shelter so that it rests on pads (stone/concrete slabs) with a separating membrane to stop the wood coming into ground contact. You can then use pretty much anything for parts of the structure where rain won't hit them. Alec

You could buy a 36" set of rails....... ....or you could just give in now and buy the 090, 6ft bar and rails and the 26" uprights right away:biggrin: Alec

Thanks, much appreciated! Alec

Realistically you wouldn't want to do it with the saws you have. By my reckoning the 372xp is 75cc (i.e. about like an 044) and the 390xp is 88cc (i.e. a bit smaller than an 066). I've milled 3' with the 066. It's not fun. With a perfectly uniform chain (see current thread on grinders!) you can live with it. If you're prepared to skim the sides off to get it down to a cant around 32" then you could just about do it with the 390xp I would have thought. I would be inclined to get a skip tooth chain (if you can find one in 3/8" - Rob D may be getting some?). It might be bearable if you are going to break the logs down into say quarters and then do the remainder of the milling on the Logosol. Otherwise a 3120, or an 075/076/070/084/088/090 would be my suggestion. Alec

Hmmm, I'd be interested in taking you on in this - me with the grinder, you with a hand file. 47" bar, ripping chain, one tooth taken out by a nail having lost about 1/8", all the other teeth to be taken back to exactly the same length.... I reckon I can do it in under 10mins from the word go, I suspect you couldn't shift that much metal in the same time. Alec

To clarify - 'type not important' means things like blackthorn, damson, cherry-plum (prunus cerasifera), even prunus pissardi are all fine, as well as the more conventional plums. If anything shows up over the winter months please think of me! Cheers Alec

I'd agree with Miker on the 048 replacement. 460 appears to be pretty well regarded and will give you a bit more without being over the top. Since you have the 088 the 660 doesn't give you much so the step down to the 460 is probably more useful. Can't comment on Husky equivalents - nothing against them, just don't have any for historical reasons. Alec

Hmmm, could make a fortune knocking on doors and offering to take trees down couldn't you....

News just now: 10 sites confirmed in E.Anglia, 7 more suspected, 5 suspected in Kent. I suspect it will go the way of other notifiable diseases - progression from notifiable to giving up. One of my earliest memories is the end of the elms, which is what got me in to trees in the first place. I was about the age my eldest daughter is now. I wonder what landscape she will have in 35yrs time. Alec

I think realistically you have to decide - do you want planks or burrs? If you try to get both, you'll end up with neither. It will come down to whether you want it for yourself or for sale, and whether you have a market. If it's burrs, you can just cut up lumps of a suitable size for a barrow. If it's planks, bear in mind you can drag them with little damage to more than the first inch or so of board. If you can get hold of a pair of wheels on a solid axle about 2' long you can shift some serious stuff with a few people. Alec

Yes, you are correct - they are. If the tree is big enough, the first four boards can be (within the 60degree angle), excluding the very centre. I've been making feather-edge cladding which is quartersawn, literally radial around the tree. One of the few jobs where a portable mill that references from the log is actually easier to use than a mill that references from its own frame. Alec

Well, good sized ones anyway. If anyone ends up doing a removal of a decent sized plum (type not important) please could you bear me in mind. Anything over 8" dia and 4' length (although 6'+ would be better). I travel around quite a lot of the country from time to time so location shouldn't be too much of a problem. Our bedrooms are all in the eaves, so no furniture fits and I'm going to have to make it. I'd like to use plum as it would be a good contrast to the elm floorboards. Cheers Alec

A bit of an aside, but I've found that if something runs, Aspen is pretty good at cleaning it up. It seems to shift all the oily gunge through quite nicely after a couple of tanks. Probably won't help with lumpy bits or crud in the carb though (and of course if your gaskets are now reliant on ethanol then it won't help at all). Alec

You say 'immediately'. Have a look at how deep the cut is. If it's literally immediately then only the teeth of the chain will be in the wood, in which case individual teeth are biting too deeply, i.e. the rakers are probably too deep. If you're getting further in and the edge of the bar rail is in the wood, it's possible the bar rails are splayed. Can you wobble the chain significantly from side to side in the bar rail? If so, it wants nipping up a bit (or replacing). Alternatively, you can get this if the teeth on one side are significantly different from the ones on the other side. Different either means different length, or one side is dull and the other is sharp. The former is possible on a part worn chain that has always been hand filed - you naturally sharpen one way which tends to take more off one side than the other and unless you have specifically taught yourself to correct this it can mount up (if you've got any calipers then you can check the length of teeth on one side, then compare with the other). The latter can happen when you clip a nail or a stone right on the edge and dull all the working corners. Both are easily fixed with either a file or a grinder. Hope this gives you some ideas to work on. Alec

Excellent. I really like it when form and function come together Alec