Big J

Not a football man at all either, but do love a good bit of wordplay!

I've just never understood the need to believe in something more. My retired neighbour is classic for it. She's not religious but spiritual and it's all psychic this and spirits that, greater plan this and I'm too young to realise that. I think it's still an echo from tougher times for humans where life was truly miserably poor, and the only hope was the promise of eternal paradise. Many people still seek that idea of a higher purpose, and I reckon that's what fuels modern religious belief in western society. Me? I think we are born, we live, we die. We're a tiny blip in the continuum of existence. The best we can do is leave the place better than we found it. You don't need religion to tell you how to do that.

Spurs have signed a new centre forward. Mario Grabatelli has stated that he's delighted to be coming to Tottenham.

I watched a couple of the videos posted early in this thread. I've always been aware of Richard Dawkins, but have not read his books (sadly, I just don't read much these days). I've always been atheist. My father is, and my mother is agnostic I suppose. Growing up without any religious dogma in the house only served to clarify the daft nature of organised religion. That said, my wife grew up in quite a religious house, and remembers a moment aged about 12 sitting in church where she decided that it was a nice story, but she just didn't buy it! There is evidence to suggest that humans are evolved to be religious (I would love to argue that with an American Christian Fundamentalist!). In tougher times, religion was a unifying factor, offering social cohesion and cooperation that was otherwise lacking. Consequently, religious groups were more likely to survive than non religious groups. Even today, atheists have a slightly shorter predicted lifespan (I'd argue quality of life though....). In later times, religion was used as a fantastically effective method of control of the masses. The church and the autocracies were always inextricably linked, and the promise of eternal paradise for a life of servitude worked wonderfully for centuries to subjugate the proles. It did of course help that your common man couldn't read, and even if he did, the first English bible didn't appear until the time of Henry the 8th. I've always found so many people's need to believe in something greater than life itself to be very interesting. I've always taken things at face value, am quite rational and logical (I'd like to think) and very unsuperstitious. With that mindset, the whole notion of a God creator doesn't, and cannot fit. Whilst the scientific theories that seek to explain our existence are theories, at least they attempt to bolster their position with evidence, as opposed to the simple requisite of faith. As our understanding of the physical world increases, I dearly hope that religion, and all the awful crimes that are commited in it's name, disappear. I am however a realist, and don't believe that this will ever happen.

Haha! My mum lives in Ripley and I grew up in Little Eaton - small world!

When reading these reports on the rioting, I'm struck by how little attention is given to the underlying problem that the UK is breeding itself a burgeoning class of uneducated, unmoralled, unemployable idiots. Some hypothetical maths for you: Over a 100 year time period: An educated couple is likely to have 2 kids by age 35, who will have two more kids aged 35 etc etc. There is never a population increase in this social class. An uneducated couple is likely to have 4 kids by age 25, who in turn produce 4 kids aged 25 etc. After 100 years, there are 16 times as many people in this social class as at the start. I realise that I am making some generalisations, but after talking to family and friends in the police and education, there are just more and more and more kids with utterly disinterested, uneducated parents, who in turn only continue this trend. I find this expansion of the lower social strata to be terrifying, and these riots are a great example of what happens when they think they actually have power. The depressing thing is that with all the laws, civil and human rights and political strangleholds, society is practically impotent to do anything. So they do have the power. (I realise that this is contrary to what I said in the capital punishment thread) but round them up and shoot them. Job done.

I think what Mr Thompson is trying to say is that a revolution comes from the concerted efforts of the middle class, not from rioting looters. You might have misread his post. Bring out the water cannons I say.

Don't bother. Let evolution sort out the gene pool!

I think in this line of work, with the quilted blinking trousers we have to wear, it's very very difficult to stay cool. I personally have always had a problem with overheating (I won't put a jumper on to work in unless it's below freezing) and always used to cut without a shirt on. Eventually, the forestry manager got sick of half naked cutters prancing about the woods and insisted on a top for 'protecting us against scratches'! I'm just about used to it again now, but anything over 18 degrees is utterly, unbearably warm. I genuinely do not know how people in hotter climes manage. Jonathan

CS 77 isn't it?

Moderators - please may I request that anyone suggesting good elm by firewooded be banned with immediate effect?! Thanks!

Bloody philistine!

It's a very nice tree. Had the woodmizer in today milling logs quite similar.

I must admit that I only do about 15-20% of the food preparation these days, as well as a lesser percentage of the shopping. I am very lucky, and my wife says that she wants to ensure I'm well fed (I do eat stupid quantities) for work. At the end of the day, forestry/arb/sawmilling is backbreaking, exhausting work, made all the worse by the feeling that you are dragging around lead trousers all day. A day's office work, whilst obviously not without it's merit, is not in the same ball park for fatigue. But yes, I do appreciate that I am very lucky. I do however make bloody excellent curry (used to be a chef in a previous career) which raises it's head once a week or so. Jonathan

Had a long reply in motion, and then arbtalk randomly screwed up and lost it. Bugger bugger bugger!

PM sent.

I agree. In it's present form it doesn't. The real key to preventing crime in the long run is not punishment or deterrent. The key is to look at the contributing factors that lead to the crime being committed in the first place. In the case of the UK, we have a largely unequal society, and huge expansion in the (for want of a more PC term) 'lower social strata'. As civilisation becomes more automated, mechanised, the job opportunities for those with limited skills are few. Hence our crime rate. It's much worse in the US though, as any inequality we have here is insignificant compared to America. Sadly, the only real measure that would lead to long term reduction in crime is a control on birthrate. If everyone has a job and resources are more plentiful, there is far less likelihood of crime being committed. Jonathan

I would say for the most part, yes 'huck. Looking at the list, it is a mixture of (predominantly) developing nations and authoritarian regimes. Quite a lot of Caribbean islands too, bizarrely! I'm not saying that I do not empathise with the desire for revenge when a crime has been committed. I'm not saying that the people who are put to death don't deserve it, but I am saying that empirically it does not reduce the crime rate and is therefore a pointless exercise in primitive, uncivilised behaviour. In my opinion, a culture which views there to be a legal instance in which taking a person's life is not only acceptable, but legally required, is far more likely to have a higher rate of murder. Jonathan

This is a bit of a depressing thread. If you look at the death penalty purely objectively, divorced from all emotional content, the countries and states with capital punishment also have the highest crime (murder) rates. It simply does not work as a deterrent. Additionally, if you look at the countries with the most punitive penal systems (the US springs to mind here) they also have the highest crime rates. Basically, a punitive and retribution based justice system does not achieve it's stated goal of preventing crime in the first place. It effectively breeds contempt for the law, and causes crime. For instance, reoffending rates once released from prison in the US are between 50-60%, whereas in Norway, they are 20%. I realise that it is extremely difficult to divorce oneself from the emotional weighting of a crime, but unless the justice system can move from punitive to rehabilitating, things aren't going to get any better. The problem with the UK is that we fall into neither camp. We don't serve long sentences, nor do we make much (if any) effort to rehabilitate our prisoners. Jonathan

Sorry to hear that Tom - some people should simply be shot.

The advert has been pulled off ebay - good stuff. What is depressing is that it looks nothing like a real MS440, but they are relying on the ignorance of the inexperienced/uneducated.

Makes good firewood - usually fairly easy to split too. I have a couple of folk who take full trailer loads off me each time I have the woodmizer in. Funny thing is not that much of it makes it onto the fire as they deem it too nice to burn! Jonathan

Fair enough! The kettlebells he has are flat bottomed (so do stand upright) - I remember how irritating the rounded ones can be. Have fun with them anyway!

It's a brutal workout, kettlebells. I used to have quite a few, but was always too much of a wuss to do anything serious with them. I didn't like getting that out of breath! My friends shop (Strength Shop) would have saved you a few quid on the kettlebells. Jonathan

I think what is comes down to is that whilst it is the aim of many retailers and indeed manufacturers (note: Husqvarna and Stihl's sales policy until recently precluding the possibility of online sales) to keep things local, they are fighting a losing battle against the reality of a global market place. Whilst I appreciate that servicing needs to be done on a local level, dealers are going to have to wake up to the fact that if they don't wish to compete in the sale of machinery, they aren't going to get many people wanting to pay the rather large premium they command. Jonathan