LGP Eddie

Tiger Winches are now available in the UK and these look simply awesome! I've had all the info and they are really are top spec bits of kit, even producing a 16 tonne version! Tiger Seilwinden - A-4541 Adlwang Eddie.

I managed to get a few pics today of the Tajfun and home made table, plus the Major. Eddie.

We had a little play yesterday with the Tajfun a friend purchased after the demo we had, and tried out some of the things he's gathered together to hopefully help get a system running smoothly. He purchased an old Fordson Major to run the Tajfun which obviously it easily achieves, however lifting and carrying the unit was another thing altogether! I actually thought the Major would have coped ok, whilst obviously going to be light on the front? However it took the addition of a couple of assistor rams plus a weight block made from half an old steel safe to keep things in balance? It's only to move it a few yards around the yard occasionally so perfectly ok. Another issue soon arose from the Major, being the PTO is actually quite high on the Processor for small tractors, and ended up requiring the tractor to be driven up onto some sleepers to raise it a little, thus keeping things nicely in line. Electrics were simply crocodile clips to the battery, but it's easy to wire in the correct plug permanently if required. The next issue came with the new Hydraulic Sawdust Extractor unit, which required a few simple mods to the tractor to provide a circuit with free return to the tank. The sawdust extractor was problematic at first, with the issue again being caused by the safety bar in the sawdust outlet causing blockages especially when cutting larger timber with a sustained blast of sawdust causing bridging. This can now safely be cut out as the extractor kit bolts over this preventing any access for hands into this area now. The extractor was performing poorly at first, but comes with a gauge fitted and you tweak the relief valve to suit as per the instructions and we ended up with such a flow of sawdust it simply can't be contained into a tonne bag? The answer will be an enclosed skip with inlet to affix the pipe and a vent the other side? The pipe into the fan unit was modified a couple of times to get one nice single bend as short as possible into the fan unit, and again this really help keep everything flowing nicely. I'm certain once that little bar is cut out and the sealed skip fitted, the whole job will be so much tidier and simpler. With regard to a log table, much thought was put into this, as the operation will depend on just having a Kramer loader to service everything, not being spoilt with one of my excavators and selector grab to feed it every piece! Looking at the Tajfun it has a nice joystick control that provides power to the log lifter on the standard table. It was decided to utilise this to provide flow to a long ram that will simply push timber along the table and up a slight lip onto the rollers. The short conveyor was thought to be enough to provide the feed, and it's easy to provide a little extra weight to a stubborn piece with your hand if required without having to move from the controls. This avoided powered roller complications, which could be added later if required? I am happy to report, that despite mk1 being a bit rough and ready it works brilliantly. The table can take a good a set of pallet forks full of timber no issues, and then it's a simple job to utilise the mini joystick control to push timber onto the feeder rollers and belt. A large load of timber is no issue, simply moving the push plate forwards and backwards allows them to eventually all drop down flat with only an occasional nudge required by hand. Such was the success, when now simply loading logs into a 16 yard skip the whole operation is remarkably slick. The Kramer loads the table from the stack, and then the driver operates the feed table to ensure a constant flow of material. The actual Processor operator is free to ensure that all is running smoothly on the cutting/splitting and concentrate on the main joystick, whilst the feed operator has plenty of time to ensure the conveyor position is correct for loading (it's on his control joystick and he has the conveyor speed controller too) plus the machine area is kept clean (which obviously the sawdust extractor is helping with). I'll try and get a few images and video today if possible, as it's plenty of idea's for people. Again output was brilliant, but I cannot stress enough the operation is only as good as the guy on the controls, with slow and steady winning the race every time plus a couple of minutes checking/cleaning regularly making such a difference to efficient operation. Eddie.

I can't help with 'small scale timber extraction costs', but I can tell you what it costs to 'extract small scale timber extraction equipment'?

Pleased it went well for you, and it's surprising just what a lump fit's in them! I do like how tidy they fold up for transport. Eddie.

I'd use this! But seriously a 1.5 tonner is the cheapest man you'll ever have on a job in my opinion and will do some serious work in a day. Eddie.

I had to investigate a little further and I possibly guessed right in that the HSE's own guide clearly states it has to be a 'Relevant Certificate of Competence or National Competence Award'? Pretty much as I thought really? If a decent provider is willing to give you an 'In House' ticket with full backing and you have evidence of their ability to train/assess then there should be no issue providing your Insurance company and possibly Client are happy with the arrangement? How else can the monopoly of these Card Schemes be kept in check? I'm no expert and don't get thinking you can get the John Bull printing press out and start making money fast! I always work things back from the dock of an Inquest in my mind as this is the worst case Scenario? When asked to provide evidence of training an 'In House' ticket and the evidence I had of the trainers qualification would do this, thus putting the said 'Trainer' in the dock to see how he got to be a Trainer in the first place? I'm not anti Card Schemes or Training in any way, just anti profiteering and goalpost moving just as things go quiet to create a bit more work and put everyone back on the merry go round again? Also no card whatsoever can provide evidence of experience? Eddie.

Yes I think this is the main point really? Is the CS unit the only actual proven qualification under 'Legislation', or is it the case a little like the Construction CPCS scheme where they use a little smoke and mirrors to fool people into thinking this? The Law bit only actually comes in the CPCS instance from your Insurance or Clients (preventing you from working) actually enforce you requiring CPCS training. In the event of the worst happening the onus is on providing "Evidence of Training' and a CPCS card does this easily? However a suitable 'In house' ticket from a reputable provider who would have to provide evidence of his own ability to provide such training would be perfectly acceptable. As I say I don't know if there is an actual law that states 'It must be a CS unit?' but I would very much doubt it because it then in reality makes the CS units a Government Scheme a little like a Driving Licence? I would expect it again to be 'Evidence of Formal Training'? A very interesting point and something as I say I wouldn't get involved in with a prospective candidate, but it could simply things for the guy who will be taking him from me for the Saw side of things? However all said and done I'd like to see anything like this used just to help reduce costs whilst suitable candidates are weeded out, before being taken through all the Industry Standard qualifications at a suitable point once it"s established they are worth investing in? It's always an awkward point, who pays for tickets, how do you stop people walking away straight after doing them etc etc, and perhaps it's a barrier as to why more younger people are not given a basic level foot in the door opportunity? Eddie.

A very interesting post as I too am considering taking on someone possibly 3 days a week to start with to try to find the right person first, but if I can find a suitable candidate they'll get to go on the whole range from a Saw to the Tracked Dumper, Excavator with attachments, Tractor., Chipper etc. On the Excavator side I would simply train them myself off site to a basic standard and then have a local instructor cover them with an 'In house' ticket. My Insurance company would accept this and so would my clients. If the worst were to happen there would be evidence of training all the way back down the line and the buck would stop at the Trainer in the dock. He would have all his evidence as at qualified training provider, which is all that is required not which scheme it happens to be? I can't see why you can't use this route for a guy on a saw? Ask your insurance company if he can be trained under direct supervision off site and then fully covered if 'In House' training has been done by a recognised provider? I aim to send any candidate with a friend who supplies me with Hand Cutters to really see if they have what it takes, so it'll be interesting to see how he would want to play it regarding tickets? Surely there are Trainers who will do a straightforward assessment using all the current guidelines and provide a certificate to prove this outside the current 'schemes' at reduced cost? The onus is to provide evidence of training, not bragging about which letters and numbers you've got on a ticket? I've witnessed so called Plant Operators with more tickets than a raffle who can seriously only come under the 'Seat Filler' category? In my own instance the 'In House' ticket would simply to get any prospective candidate up and running to see if they may last the distance. Taking them then on through the industry recognised schemes as they progress, balancing the cost against their performance and value they bring to the business? A lot to think about, but I'd really like to go down this route and get someone up to speed. Eddie.

I'd say that approx 1 tonne close in would be a pretty fair guess, but Charlieh raised a good point when he had a little play on it and that's it would actually stand a fair bit bigger grab on it to speed the cycle up a little. It always seems to easily lift what it grabs no issues, and gives very quick operation with little revs required on the base machine. I'm hoping to persuade Greg to move the grab operation to a foot pedal via cable to the block, which would make it a true 2 handed operation. Regarding fuel, I'd say despite being the larger engine than the Kubota version it's actually very close in consumption. Working on approx 40 litres per day over a range of work won't be too far off and pricing at 50 litres would see you completely safe. Eddie.

Yes it is the very same 'Ultimate Forwarder' and I don't have the time here to heap enough praise on it!! Greg has done a great job of just sorting out a few bits and pieces, and we've had some serious work out of it in a wide range of applications. It actually works best alongside my own 8 tonne excavator that can load it extremely quickly, allowing it to traverse site and then unload at it's own pace. The resulting time between loads allows me to sort everything out ready for quick loading, and crush/stack brash together also if it's going to the fire. The dumper can deal with brash just as effectively, taking a decent load from the excavator and placing straight onto the fire, plus tidying the fire if required. They can clear a fair area together in a day with hardly a mark and everything tidy. We had a recent application that involved transporting rocks to the excavator for placing, and again it came into it's own. Rocks were delivered to a suitable pint with a larger dumper and then simply self loaded, before being transported to me with no mess and total safety. The machine seems to get all those 'can you just' jobs like fetching buckets, bog mats, fuel tank etc and once again is brilliant because it can do them all quickly and safely. A top bit of kit. Eddie.

Hi Logrover, sounds like you have some interesting kit? What are your excavators? We do a fair bit of this and just laugh at the concept of 'Bandtracks'? They are far more an aid that is designed to provide as much additional bite as floatation in my opinion, and simply no comparison to something like a tracked dumper you may be considering. We generally go where others won't or where clients simply can't have the mess, and having this around now has transformed the work. Eddie.

Yes that's correct this model did have the swinging conveyor option and I'd say it's simply a must? It will easily do three bags or an Ifor trailer for example from one spot. Plenty of little things I liked including how the small table we had on demo simply clipped on the back for transport and even raised/lowered hydraulically to setup. The conveyor belt is in small sections bolted together and could be easily repaired on site without much cost or delay. it would take a fair lump and we made certain we tried it and not only the one! You're making some logs when you start and get some bigger gear into it I can tell you! One part of the demo we did at a friends house to put some big conifer through for him, hard to imagine but we ended up calling another friend to jump on his mini digger just to clear stuff out of the way we were making it that fast!! That's a 3ft bucket 5 tonner size for a bit of scale? The whole pile took approx 5 hours including setup and dismantling, with me placing it on the table with the 5 tonner and grab and just one other operating the processor. Apart from roping in another to move the pile! As I say it never went back and another will be coming shortly. Eddie.

I suppose it's always hard to embrace going with what can be considered a luxury when simple levers would do the job perfectly, however once used I doubt you'd want anything but the joystick? One thing I did find, as I was doing the loading I didn't get too much time at the controls peronally but a number of people did spend good time at the controls and I got to see how their differing styles could really impact upon production? The best method seemed to be to learn to operate the Joystick with your left hand, and have your right ready to open the cover should any issue arise? This immediately stops all the operation and it's usually just a case of flicking a round into place that's got a little crossed up. The other thing that really showed was the Operators who took that little bit more time got the best production? The operation is very fast and some simply took the approach that if you keep pulling the lever the machine will do it all? There's always something to be looking at with a processor? I'd say you 'Operate' them not 'Drive' them like any machine and a few moments here and there to clean things out etc can make all the difference to output. I had a look through and sadly only took a few pictures but there's loads more about from all the visitors we had. As with anything take a good look yourself and see if it'll work for you but 100% worth getting over in the first place and Kilworth seem very switched on compared to most suppliers. Eddie.

Both a friend and myself had one on hire/demo from Kilworth and put approx 80 tonne through it, mainly of Larch and some Conifer right up to the max it would take. It turned out a consistent product at a fantastic rate and really can cope with some pretty large material for it's size. The joystick control is a pleasure to use and everyone took to it straight away. I simply can't praise it enough and we only had one very simple issue which was sawdust building up in the outlet and preventing the bar returning enough. There is a grille over the outlet for safety I assume and obviously cutting this out would help but a bit naughty? However there is an optional sawdust extractor to bag the sawdust up which can be electric or hydraulically operated which in the video looks extremely effective and would clear any issue I suspect. One call to Andy at Kilworth mid Saturday afternoon when this first occurred, had a brilliant response. After much checking via the phone, he promised to get someone out to us and he certainly did! Towing another complete machine all the way out just in case, and to add insult to injury we found the issue by chance just as they arrived! It really only was half an inch the bar needed to travel and a good future learning exercise for all anyway. If you need to transport a processor regularly it folds up brilliantly and fitted nicely with the width of the Valtra N series. Needless to say the unit didn't go back and another will be coming for either myself or another friend once we sort who's going to run it. Eddie.

Yes Transport is obviously a major factor and we're not trying to be to the pound here. It wasn't an argument, just a point that came up and nobody could realistically answer it? I'd reasonably assume that something like £30-35 per cube for Softwood delivered fairly local would be somewhere near the mark? I suppose it just suits some peoples setups or a quick way to bulk out stocks if required? Thanks for the replies. Eddie.

A big discussion broke out in the brew cabin this morning regarding logs/processors/builders bags and the usual stuff. But nobody could put a value on simple softwood processed logs delivered in Artic Bulkers, ready to just bag up? Again the discussion led to bulkers carrying 45 cube, but 60 was mentioned? We're well aware of roadside prices etc, but what's it cost for someone else to do the lot and deliver it per cube? Eddie.

Mikey, the 3 Roller setup looks brilliant and I'm hoping to source components myself for such a setup. Did you manage to purchase the motors/rollers and as complete units or source /make up components? I think the 3 motors will be considerably less hassle than a chain drive setup? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Eddie.

A pretty accurate summary really from a brief operating experience, the simple fact we associate engine revs/noise with speed/power makes everything so alien. I didn't have more than a few minutes on it, but Andy who operated it took a few days to fully accept it. Unfortunately it didn't arrive full and I wasn't on site to get accurate fuel consumption, but it seemed very frugal. The client loved it and I'll ask for another next time to see what the real world savings are. Eddie.

Just an update on how the 'Ultimate forwarder' is getting on in it's new Staffordshire Moorlands home. It was great to go up with Greg when he made the purchase and meet Stephen who really is a top bloke! Greg has made quite a few bits of mods before putting it to work, including some belly plates and a grab bar that allows the crane to stow nicely forward. We have just been doing some moorland access improvements and ditching where it's really been a useful bit of kit, but it's into the woods in earnest on tuesday, so we'll see how it performs with some forwarding. It should be a brilliant match to my excavators on projects. I ordered a 20 tonner this week and had a little shock when this thing landed, a bit posh for raking up brash! Eddie.

Just a big grapple we have specced for a client to make use of his own 20 tonne machine whilst we do some clearance work for him. It arrived today and certainly looks a monster! Eddie.

It really is a sad state of affairs, but with current prices you don't need much of a raid to negate all the savings a bulk buy could bring. I have witnessed some shockers in the Plant game, worst being somewhere in the region of 5,000 litres taken from a quarry restoration job I was working on over the weekend. They had emptied Dozers, Dumptrucks and the whole Bowser filled up on the Friday. These were professionals on this site, taking the gearbox from the 4x4 Bedford water tanker twice (shouldn't laugh, but the boss jumped in both times and no gears!). Then they had his couple of week old Defender 90 off the job too! No easy answers and I'd be keen to see a properly setup 4x4 delivery setup that could access sites and do a fill up directly in the field. Done well it could do away with all the on site fuel/storage hassles, but cost and maintaining a reliable service would be the key? You can't afford kit standing awaiting fuel. Eddie.

I know exactly where you're coming from as I'm always in this dilemma. My local fuel place offers Red off the pump at 84p including vat, but they actually do me a much better deal as I use so much from them. It's really handy for me they're open 6 days from 6.00am and I can just collect a few days worth of fuel. I take my Fuel Cube straight to them for larger jobs and again they're good on the rate for me, but for when I have something like a 20 tonner on hire they will fill a Chieftain twin axle bowser that I simply hire in at a better rate again. I try my best to store no fuel on site and pretty much have about exactly what I need, safe in the knowledge all cans and tanks are clean plus the diesel fresh. The cost of buying and locating a decent tank setup would be considerable, and hanging onto the stuff is another matter entirely! I'd say stick with one supplier and negotiate with them if the monthly amount starts adding up. Eddie.

A great thread with many good points raised. I too have pretty much the same dilemma with the 13,000kg Hydraulic Superwinch fitted to my 8 tonne excavator. I have tried will little success to source a suitable snatch block of over 26,000kg rating that is suitable for the 20mm wire rope fitted. However in my own instance, the winch is simply large enough in a single line pull and I have a 15,000kg block if any direction changes are required. The forces generated when doubling up a 13,000kg winch can get pretty scary, and would impart high loadings on the attachment point back at the machine. However there may be instances where I may require a double line pull to reduce speed and increase power a little such as de-bogging and I would be pretty much in the same position? Do I simply use the 15,000kg block knowing I'll never get to 26,000kg anyway and the block has a good safety factor or risk flattening the rope on a larger block? I simply keep away from such instance personally, but fully understand the dilemma? My view always relates back to the inquest on safety? Putting yourself in the dock and imagining the highly paid Barrister asking the question 'what is the maximum line pull the winch could have imparted and was the equipment rated for this?' In my own instance this would require a block of 26,000kg to answer Yes. Interesting 'Common Sense' has come up a few times, but unfortunately due to the culture we now find ourselves working under this phrase has long been replaced by 'Method Statement, Risk Assessment'! I'd say get the lightweight 7000kg job for your day to day along with a full at least 12 Tonne item to have with you at all times. If you have the slightest doubt use the larger block when required. Eddie.

I have my machines moved any distance on a 6 wheel Plant lorry, but in some respects I suppose I pay what I would consider slightly over the odds because it is a full spec unit with large Hiab Crane fitted. I pay £60 per hour, but for this I get a top professional service with fantastic communication, punctuality,equipment and real care. The simple fact I know this company is fully insured and probably has resources to cover the value of the machine themselves if required. However for a straightforward spot hire from a decent Haulier with a standard 6 wheel plant lorry, I'd expect to pay about £45 per hour. Fixed price is always best if you can get them to quote it. Eddie.