Rob D

Tolerances are tighter on the Sugi bars = more friction if anything is worn. Also the metal on the rails is harder so although over time they should last longer if they do get heated they suffer [oregon/husky/stihl do not take their rails as hard as Sugi or Tsumura and are more forgiving]. There is a direct correlation to bar failure [both on bar body and nose] to a worn drive rim or worn spur. Sugi bars on less extreme worn chains and drive sprockets you tend to see chips come out of the rail after a few months of use. But that's not to say that caused the issues you may have had - it could well be a dud nose or a fault in the bearing... I'm saying that from what I have seen since taking over the calls and warranties the last 6 months there is a common element and none of the customers concerned have come back again with the same issue [again this is unconfirmed as I didn't call them to follow up].

Look at this chain - at a glance it's nearly new and looks fine - but it's not - if you look closely at the tie straps they are flattened which should not be anywhere close to this at this early stage:

Yep - but I was equally guilty of above neglect when I was on the tools full time - it's only as I keep seeing people coming back asking ref warranty that I have seen a common problem. And getting pics and looking at them under the microscope figuratively speaking. This is from home users and pros with 20 years under their belts. It's a blind spot in the tool of our trade - you only have to look on this thread to see that - people are thinking all other reasons as to why bars fail. And they could be right - it could be a combo - but this area of not using old chains and old spurs/rims on a new bar is missed.

Have a close look at your chains on your saws - are the under sides of the tie straps damaged? The drive links themselves? It's the underside of the chain to look at not the top.

In all the cases previous - changing the drive spur/rim and chain and bar sorted the problems [to my knowledge as didn't get confirmation in all cases]. So this then to me rules out any other causes you may think of. Here's another:

These are the obvious ones - but even slight damage seems to cause problems - this one was 'Cannon carving bars both in 10" and 12" on same saw getting very very hot. Saw oiling fine'. You can see a ding in one part of the rim - this can be caused if you de rail a chain and then put it back on the bar, grease it up and force it to run. Because the drive rims get caught on the chain catcher and get burred and peened. Much more subtle - and not sure of outcome yet ie. did dressing the bars/changing the rim and changing the chain sort it?

I have I think x18 or so examples - it's quite hard to collate and get pics off people... All came saying they had premature bar failure, bar oiling was fine and they tested it with the bar off and they said oil hole was free [got no way to test this though..]. Mixture of bars effected from all main manufacturers but Sugi seem the most effected [but then that's what we sell most of].

All these examples are customers who came back after changing over to a new bar [and having issues straight away] but using the old chains and drive spur/rim.

If you check the above pic look at how [on the tie straps] the drive spur has got worn and is now pushing up into the tie straps and burring them over. This creates sharp metal where it should be smooth. These wear the bar on the top rail and create friction - so they get peened, go round the bar and drive sprocket, back round the spur and get peened again etc..

I do have some science to back up my conclusions and have been meaning to make a vid for a long time on this.I'm not saying I am right or wrong but if you approach this topic with an open mind. As a rule of thumb: Worn drive spur or rim Worn chain Worn bar The above combo sort of works - it doesn't work like it should but it works. Change the chain [and keep old drive spur/rim and bar] - you'll have no issues - the worn drive sprocket peens the sides of the drive links but the bar groove is already worn wider by the last chain. Change the drive spur or rim [and keep old bar and chain] - you'll have no issues [that you'll notice] - the worn chain will wear the new drive spur/rim much much faster but you won't see anything Change the bar [and keep old drive spur/rim and old chain] - new bar [particularly the Japanese and Cannon bars] the rails are harder and the tolerances are tighter. The drive links on your chain are peened which makes them wider - they just about still fit but the friction especially on running it up is severe. Worst case it heats the bar massively and it's obvious something is wrong. Next worse case it heats the bar up a fair bit but sort of works but 2 or 3 weeks down the line a chip appears in the bar where the metal has got hot and become brittle.

I don't think this was ever used long enough to flip it ie. damage done within 1 hour of using it..

Yep well it's personal choice how you run your gear but best practice is to change the drive rim and sprocket regularly as it leads to premature damage. Stihl and Oregon say you should, I say you should as I've seen the damage caused by not doing it - but it's a forum and things are up for debate... I see 2 to 3 bar failures a week and there is a common theme in what I believe has caused the damage in most cases.

Sorry if this is a daft question - but why would you be running plenty of very worn sprockets over the years? And if a sprocket is very worn would you not replace it [if you knew it was very worn]?

It's not this one - I've tried a few of these and they are not as well made or as effective plus if you look at where the drive sprocket is you need to change this and match it to the saw ie. you need a range of these. Having the side cover off I'm not sure the CE marking is still valid.. the vee belt drive is a good idea though and that worked well but again it means you have to have a different changeover drive sprocket for each saw.

Hi Les - I think we now have this sorted over whatsapp. Rob

You would seriously not believe how many people are wrecking their gear by not changing the rim and/or using chains that have damage on drive links on a new bar... it's almost daily now. I am going to do some stickers saying that warranty on any bar is invalidated unless drive sprocket is in good condition.

Nope it's messy soaking in oil - WD40 squirted down the bar groove works really well.

Nope it surely is not lack of oil or a blunt chain [saw oiling fine and chain new on there, damage occurred pretty much after a few cuts] - and this illustrates my point really ie. that's what folks would think would cause this... but it ain't! And when folks are convinced of what the cause is it's then almost impossible to convince them otherwise.

Very very thin so down the grain or across the grain it cuts well - and less sawdust as well. Downside is the fragility...

We now have 20" 1/4 .043 bars for both Stihl and Husky saws - a smaller saw ie. 35cc will work with these bars but please be aware: Panther mini bars are more delicate - all the 1/4 .043 bars are - they don't last as long as a thicker larger bar. The pay off is a smoother nicer cut - less longevity - how much less longevity is more down to you than the bar. If you want to go down this route buy a few chains - these small chains tend to be best sharpened once or thrice then replaced. Below vid is the Stihl bar on an Echo 390ESX [this works with 102 drive links not 100] Saws this bar will fit? See below BUT this is a custom type fit for experienced and knowledgeable folk - just because it fits doesn't mean you should do it - most people love the 1/4 .043 set up but some really don't so it's not a case of 'this is the best so get it' - it is an option [which we really got for the Panther Cub to give the thinnest milling kerf of any chainsaw mill]. STIHL 009, 010, 011, 012, 017, MS170, MS171, 018, MS180, MS181, 019, MS190, MS191, MS192, MS193, 020, MS200, MS201, 021, 022, MS210, MS211 019T, MS190T, MS191T, MS192T, MS193T, 020T, MS200T, MS201T HT70, HT75, HT100, HT101, HT130, HT131 E140, E160, E180, MSE140, MSE160, MSE180, MSE200 Cannon bar code (starts) S5 GB bar code (starts) SW12 Oregon bar code (ends) A074 Stihl bar code (starts) 3005 Sugihara bar code (starts) SL2 Panther mini bars for Stihl - Chainsawbars WWW.CHAINSAWBARS.CO.UK

We have around x18 of these - they work well but set up is 'fiddly'. We are much closer now to having all the components [Cannon de barker bars, cutterless chain] but currently we only have Cannon de barker bars for mid size Stihls [MS261, MS391] and mid size Husky [D009 mount though so very limiting to older 60-65cc Husky saws]. You can still mount to a larger saw if you choose but recommended max size is 65cc. In 2 months we will have these rebranded as Panther log de barkers and price will go up as they will be more an official pack - but if you want a better price now here they are. Would really appreciate it if interested that you go through the instructions first to see what's what - if you have a saw you want to fit this to I can prob set up a kit for you. Debarker - Chainsawbars WWW.CHAINSAWBARS.CO.UK NOTE: We will be getting Panther branded de barker tools in approx 6 weeks. They are the same tool as these but in black [they will retail at £140-00+vat whereas these - the same tool are £120-00+vat. Chain is not included in the price. We have used these for a while and they work well - ensure you adjust the clearance on blades correctly as they can be set overly aggressive from the factory. Please read all the info first BEFORE you buy as otherwise you will not know what you are getting into! Do not buy now work it out later - take the time to read the below info first. Remember it mounts to the bar and will run .325 or 3/8 lo pro chain only. We have .325 .050 in cutterless chain only with no plans to get other sizes. This will mount on most saws - ideally between 30cc to 50cc but can be up to 65cc. Note on something like a 560XP you will quickly wear the splines out on the tool due to the excess power so be aware. All PPE associated with chainsaw use you will need to wear using this tool We will be getting Cannon debarker bars in for smaller saws in the future - but they will not be here until after 10th Nov 2020 We have de barker bars for mid range Stihl and larger Husky saws which are in this de barker area [or will be added shortly] If you are using .325 then go for the cutter less chain You will need to drill your chainsaw bar to fit this tool Chain size - this is not straight forward due to varying bar sizes but a rule of thumb will be around x6 drive links longer than your existing chain. But you may have to experiment with chain size to get this right https://pdfhost.io/v/hofK3CHoH_RR2445_Log_Debarker_Instructionspdf.pdf

Go on then last one is it the 28" version? Not upsetting me at all so don't worry on that score https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324260850689