Rob D

We have 20" as max at the moment - it's like the lo pro set ups - if you are snapping chains and having issues using larger chains lo pro and panther type set ups are not for you. But at the moment 20" is longest we may see how things go and do longer later.

Panther Cub, Echo 390 ESX and 20" Panther Mini Bar Set up is as title - this is for smaller saws and smaller needs - it worked really well and to my knowledge this is the thinnest cutting in terms of kerf chainsaw mill in the world. Video gives a full over view of milling a small log all the way from set up to finish. Panther Cub stuff can be found here Panther Cub - Chainsawbars WWW.CHAINSAWBARS.CO.UK

Have re worked this page - included more links and info [where the links now work!]. Not so much for those who have found their rhythm chainsaw milling and it's not to say there is a right way or a wrong way but hopefully if you are new to milling or want to learn more this page may help. Chainsaw milling is a whole new discipline [like chainsaw carving] and it is months of work and study to start getting your eye in [years even].. it's hard to answer questions such as 'I want to cut myself a few boards where do I start?' Well the answer is start here and work your way through this - it's all relevant and unfortunately if you don't know basics such as what size chain you are using or what size files go with that chain it will take some time. There are no short cuts and believe me I spend most of my life learning this the hard way. Anyways main reason for this thread is - what am I missing in this page? What questions do you have about milling that are not answered and need answering? FAQS - Chainsawbars WWW.CHAINSAWBARS.CO.UK Feel free to contact us if you have any questions or require further information on any our products. Videos of all...

Haha yep - I didn't know that was the MS180!

You can get the ones with a V belt on ebay I think but you then need to match it to a debarker that has the correct drive sprocket to run the belt.

Can do I suppose but grit and crud shouldn't really ever be near the bar and chain in the first place [I know you have quantified that ref domestic situations]. Really the whole issue of greasing the nose is a piece of string question - depends on how you do it, when you do it, what sort of cutting you are doing, how well you maintain your gear [a clean bar allows bar oil to seep to the nose bearings] and all manner of other variables. A bit like the 'how often should I sharpen the chain' the answer being 'when it is dull'! It's the hardest thing I find in phone conversations - people want quick all encompassing answers - when they do not exist.

When you run the saw after greasing do so very very gently and allow any excess grease to get pushed out. I'm pretty sure [but by no means 100%] Stihl went to sealed nose bearings due to issues with people incorrectly greasing the nose.

Had failures across the board on all brands of bars - pretty much proportionate to what we sell.. here's most recent one - sprocket nose failure - this may not have been anything to do with the drive rim [more likely over greased then run up too quickly] but rim had never been changed and even though hardly used the chain tie straps are already showing damage.

Almost forgot the 'best' picture of what a damaged or worn drive rim will do to the chain!

The bar was pretty new so you would not have a drive link bottoming out. In pretty much all instances the bar is new or new ish hence I get called to ask about warranties. The bar being forced to cut could well have been an issue - and also a slack chain - as the chain comes around the nose it slaps the bar just behind the nose sprocket.

Tolerances are tighter on the Sugi bars = more friction if anything is worn. Also the metal on the rails is harder so although over time they should last longer if they do get heated they suffer [oregon/husky/stihl do not take their rails as hard as Sugi or Tsumura and are more forgiving]. There is a direct correlation to bar failure [both on bar body and nose] to a worn drive rim or worn spur. Sugi bars on less extreme worn chains and drive sprockets you tend to see chips come out of the rail after a few months of use. But that's not to say that caused the issues you may have had - it could well be a dud nose or a fault in the bearing... I'm saying that from what I have seen since taking over the calls and warranties the last 6 months there is a common element and none of the customers concerned have come back again with the same issue [again this is unconfirmed as I didn't call them to follow up].

Look at this chain - at a glance it's nearly new and looks fine - but it's not - if you look closely at the tie straps they are flattened which should not be anywhere close to this at this early stage:

Yep - but I was equally guilty of above neglect when I was on the tools full time - it's only as I keep seeing people coming back asking ref warranty that I have seen a common problem. And getting pics and looking at them under the microscope figuratively speaking. This is from home users and pros with 20 years under their belts. It's a blind spot in the tool of our trade - you only have to look on this thread to see that - people are thinking all other reasons as to why bars fail. And they could be right - it could be a combo - but this area of not using old chains and old spurs/rims on a new bar is missed.

Have a close look at your chains on your saws - are the under sides of the tie straps damaged? The drive links themselves? It's the underside of the chain to look at not the top.

In all the cases previous - changing the drive spur/rim and chain and bar sorted the problems [to my knowledge as didn't get confirmation in all cases]. So this then to me rules out any other causes you may think of. Here's another:

These are the obvious ones - but even slight damage seems to cause problems - this one was 'Cannon carving bars both in 10" and 12" on same saw getting very very hot. Saw oiling fine'. You can see a ding in one part of the rim - this can be caused if you de rail a chain and then put it back on the bar, grease it up and force it to run. Because the drive rims get caught on the chain catcher and get burred and peened. Much more subtle - and not sure of outcome yet ie. did dressing the bars/changing the rim and changing the chain sort it?

I have I think x18 or so examples - it's quite hard to collate and get pics off people... All came saying they had premature bar failure, bar oiling was fine and they tested it with the bar off and they said oil hole was free [got no way to test this though..]. Mixture of bars effected from all main manufacturers but Sugi seem the most effected [but then that's what we sell most of].

All these examples are customers who came back after changing over to a new bar [and having issues straight away] but using the old chains and drive spur/rim.

If you check the above pic look at how [on the tie straps] the drive spur has got worn and is now pushing up into the tie straps and burring them over. This creates sharp metal where it should be smooth. These wear the bar on the top rail and create friction - so they get peened, go round the bar and drive sprocket, back round the spur and get peened again etc..

I do have some science to back up my conclusions and have been meaning to make a vid for a long time on this.I'm not saying I am right or wrong but if you approach this topic with an open mind. As a rule of thumb: Worn drive spur or rim Worn chain Worn bar The above combo sort of works - it doesn't work like it should but it works. Change the chain [and keep old drive spur/rim and bar] - you'll have no issues - the worn drive sprocket peens the sides of the drive links but the bar groove is already worn wider by the last chain. Change the drive spur or rim [and keep old bar and chain] - you'll have no issues [that you'll notice] - the worn chain will wear the new drive spur/rim much much faster but you won't see anything Change the bar [and keep old drive spur/rim and old chain] - new bar [particularly the Japanese and Cannon bars] the rails are harder and the tolerances are tighter. The drive links on your chain are peened which makes them wider - they just about still fit but the friction especially on running it up is severe. Worst case it heats the bar massively and it's obvious something is wrong. Next worse case it heats the bar up a fair bit but sort of works but 2 or 3 weeks down the line a chip appears in the bar where the metal has got hot and become brittle.

I don't think this was ever used long enough to flip it ie. damage done within 1 hour of using it..

Yep well it's personal choice how you run your gear but best practice is to change the drive rim and sprocket regularly as it leads to premature damage. Stihl and Oregon say you should, I say you should as I've seen the damage caused by not doing it - but it's a forum and things are up for debate... I see 2 to 3 bar failures a week and there is a common theme in what I believe has caused the damage in most cases.