treeseer

Not really...symmetry is never perfect but it is usually desirable. Trees that have been topped/lopped especially are out of balance so improving symmetry is a reasonable goal. Looks like a lot came off but don't know enough about the tree or the owners objective to say it was too much.

Page 26 here might be a start 2010 August Arborist News

Sorry; forgot that the AA piece was a 2 parter and i lack a pdf for the 2nd part. Yes the 3/8" EHS cable went in at the red line. Support there is not too limited--more than a foot of good holding wood at each end, where the cable is held by wirestops as shown in the opening pic. Compared to pruning off benefits, support is a very conservative solution to almost all the trees seen in this thread. Like hama I truly enjoy reshaping a tree to prepare it for the long haul, but for the worst defects a slender strand of steel can help retain a lot of crown, and avoid a lot of pruning wounds. THOBURN OAK OBSERVATIONS AND DISCUSSION Nine feet above ground, the trunk forked into four scaffold limbs. Three years ago, one limb failed and was cut back to the trunk. A new branch is growing next to the stub. The limb growing to the northwest is declining; many of its small laterals and twigs are leafless. Below this limb there is decay in the outer trunk at ground level, 30 inches wide, facing the sidewalk. Resistograph readings showed that the decay is only 1-2” deep, but probably deep enough to prevent good uptake of any injected material. The sidewalk meanders slightly around the trunk. The panels near the tree appear newer, and the edges of some have been ground down, apparently in response to upheaval by expanding roots. A palm tree growing in the cavity was pulled out easily, because the roots stopped where a 3” layer of concrete was installed to “cap” the cavity. Where this concrete met the declining limb there is a thick bulge of tissue, showing that the concrete blocked the flow of sap, making the limb less healthy and less stable. The standards on tree support state that “Treatment of cavities by filling shall not be considered to provide support”4, which is one reason cavities are seldom filled today. A streak of decay extends from the cavity between the declining limb and the limb growing toward city hall. There is no crack forming, and the Resistograph again showed that the decay is only 1-2” deep, with 17” of undecayed holding wood. Pruning will reduce the considerable load on this minor defect, and adding supplemental support can prevent failure in the future. Although both limbs are almost horizontal, they each have upright lateral branches that are large enough and vertical enough to hold a cable. The standards call for a 5/16” Extra High Strength cable to support limbs of this size, so a 3/8” cable would be superadequate. Drilling through both limbs and installing a brace rod could be done to add more support in the future, but the additional wounding and expense does not seem warranted now. With the cable installed, the pruning can be limited to dead, dying, and the most overextended branches. The southwest limb has little root disturbance underneath, so it has high vitality. Lightly pruning the heavy end near the wires would increase the tree’s symmetry and stability. MANAGEMENT OPTIONS Prune dead, dying, and overextended branches. Install a 3’8” EHS cable to support the decayed fork. Remove concrete carefully, avoiding bark damage. Test the soil, and add nutrients that are lacking. The city was satisfied, and decided to go ahead with the cabling of the municipal tree. Given this experience, it is clear that municipalities can and will accept tree cabling. According to Matheny and Clark, “Almost by definition, arborists have a responsibility to care for trees”, and that duty is not breached if we act in a reasonable manner.* Offering opinions about trees’ dignity or decrepitude without analyzing the facts is not part of a professional risk assessment. Members of the American Society of Consulting Arborists (ASCA) follow their Standards of Professional Practice, Item 4.2 G. :* " Members shall not take advantage of their positions as Experts by assigning or implying greater significance to an interpretation than it warrants. The degree of certainty of an opinion is as important as the opinion itself and Members shall do nothing, actively or passively, to misstate the degree of certainty." 
 Instead of reporting defensively by injecting opinions or exaggerations, we should be systematically assessing standard treatment options to abate risk. If the treatments follow the standards and the ISA BMP’s, there is no reason to fear liability from working on trees that some would dismiss as “decrepit”,

absolutely, and since his name and Pauli's both are evident, there is no doubt about who owns it, and the use is noncommercial.

Sounds like it did still produce growth; just less growth. just saying. Great pix, thanks!

True it can be hard to schedule, but where this comes into play is maybe going light in the off season and sell a return visit for a major [prune when it's best. Nothing wrong with getting back on the property...

The funny thing is, cabling to mitigate these bad unions seems to be rarer yet in UK, but why?! Low cost, low invasiveness, high effectiveness. The attached cable job <2 hours, <100 pounds worth of material. tree is 80%+ hollow; has a pretty shroom at the base, nice. Cable--Thoburn Oak DB AA.pdf

"Reducing these poplars to a hedge, will basically be topping them, and in a few years they will become dangerous with regrowth, something i wouldnt want to deal with!" A hedge can be any height, so the reduction need not be so severe that sprouting would be rampant. Also to lower risk, a rope could be woven around the trees. Maybe not a good option, but an option nonetheless... "i see where you are coming from with that, but imo these trees dont add much to the area they are in, with them covered in ivy, i agree it can be valuable habitat," Yes very valuable. birds etc do not ask plants for their ID or proof of nativeness. " i have recommended removal and replanting of native british species that will have a higher amenity value." If I saw them I may agree; lombardies rot pretty easy over here. but re removal/replacement, i always wonder: At what expense? In how many years will contributions be restored? Are we sure?

Re the remainders, would reduction instead of removal leave a more stable hedge?

47, as counted by BCI, but the point is there are many and they are quite at risk. All the more reason for arborists to think about habitat, as Detective Dendro pointed out last April: "“The sound was distinctly that of roosting bats” I said. They make visiting here in the summer more pleasant by eating mosquitoes, and control other pests The presence of bats affects the risk assessment because bats are a valued species here, and add significant wildlife value to this tree. In some countries, even tiny wildlife like beetles and highly specialized fungi are highly valued. All creatures great and small are tree associates, worthy of our consideration.” Full of coffee and curiosity, the group went back outside to the tree. The setting sun streaked the sky as they looked up to the deathly hollows in the holly trunk. After a quiet moment, one small brown creature took flight, then another, then several. The group burst into applause. “A reduction in the mosquito population would make the summer evenings more pleasant” the young woman mused dreamily, looking from me to the rising mammals, flying up and away. Suddenly I felt quite warm, and concluded. “Bats are becoming endangered due to white-nose syndorme, which can be carried into their caves by unsuspecting humans. It’s up to arborists to preserve bat habitat in trees, and install bat houses in favorable locations. These valuable associates can roost in trees during the day, and control insect pests by night—a win-win-win deal for bats, trees and people.” “It’s a bad deal for the insects”, Codit pointed out, “But we don’t want to facilitate closer coexistence with them, anyway.”

Welcome; there is a place for hardscapeers too!

I totally agree, but the only way this can happen is if people familiar with those issues do the writing. Which issues do you believe should be covered?

"i stand corrected should have said 'nearly all the articles" well thanks for that. So if you have not read it, how do you know? But you're quite right about some magazines being good sources, because peers review them in a somewhat systematic fashion. Posts on forums are quite spotty; read them at your own risk.

"i subscribe to this rag (Aussie version)the whole mag is dedicated to adverts,even the articles" Not all of the articles. Look again. btw they do accept submissions, if you anyone's of a mind to take a crack at it...

Seiridium canker is pandemic in the SE USA. Are there bleeding lesions on the stems?

Yup p 591 of ANTB shows all unstained wood in a pole rotted, so it acts a a preservative! That confirms other sources on the 2nd question so thanks for the prompt.. Nothing in MA. Have looked at lots of other studies but nothing to answer my first (admittedly dumb) question. It seems like an obvious NO, so never mind then... Just wanted to get a second on that so to get some backup.

"The micro drills are far quicker to set up and extract useable data than the homographs." While it's not a good idea to race when assessing risk, I wonder how much quicker vs. how usable the data is. Using fakopp's arborsonic takes us < 15 minutes of field time, to get an image at one level. "...formula is a necessity for basing a report on, whether that be the one our long haired friend from the Karlsrue Institute originated or the one Iowas own Dr Coder devised." t/r or any formula may be useful for some trees, but (in a different land) i've only found it a necessity to use for a few. for significant muni trees i'd be more likely to use formulae, so i think i understand your perspective. but as far as the basis of a report, see #7 here http://www.fs.fed.us/foresthealth/technology/htwc/Docs/04-Matheny-Top_10_Lessons.pdf I've studied biology at the feet of the iowan for lo these many years, but the engineering calculations that are applied to trees, from that or any source, I--and several others more skilled than I-- have found wanting. "Trees are not pipes" as Nelda puts it. I much prefer introducing mitigation scenarios and prognoses of residual risk much earlier in the assessment process, while most unfortunately seem to prefer quixotically questing for The Number. From what i've seen of your work, i could learn a lot about mitigation from you, so maybe we take slightly different routes to the same goal. But Iowa is next to Missouri, and in the US "I'm from Missouri" is a saying that reflects skepticism, which is where I'm at on applying, or certainly relying on, engineering formulae to most biodynamic entities, whatever their contents. That's why the tomo far outstrips the drill in terms of usable data imho. Maybe they could sell shrouds for you high-profile guys--"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"--or set up some kind of nearby distraction...?

I had a colleague look at some spruce that the beetles had had their way with. i saw pics showing stuff on the bark that looks a whole lot like lichen or moss to me but they had the notion that it might be a sign of blue stain fungus within. I had never known this condition to go outside the wood itself, but I am not a spruce expert. the pics are in a doc which won't attach here for some reason. I hope that someone more experienced with the species could opine on this matter. Second question is the effects of this stain on wood quality. I've read that it blocks circulation but does not in and of itself compromise wood quality. Is this true? Mills here will not take blue-stained pine logs. Thank you! 

Picus is revamping theirs to eliminate the need to connect 2 cables together, etc; rollout early 2012 i am told. others only have 1 cable now and are quicker; just fyi not selling, though i like tomos in general because i do not like t/r--bollocks imo. then again attention is not such an issue for us as it is for muni folk--wait, doesn't resistographing draw attention too? i looked at the snazzy new resisto last month at a trade show; digital all the way, quick pic etc. $8000 US. coincidentally after i got home the chaps from the power company to test my pole (the one holding up the wires) with the very same tool. The lads were not excited about using it--they knew they could "see" signs of inner defects quite well without. cheeky youth.

Very cool. That first pic with the ferns in the tree is a classic! Thank you for the pics and also the patience. In that other, more open location I would much rather see a larger tree, but Salix does not seem very capable of delivering size and stability when so exposed, unless trained early and the core kept solid. Good on the supporters of the NGO to pay to retain attorneys! We in the US have broader environmental groups like that, but few that are tree-specific.

"I am not disagreeing at all. The examples he has posted are 'wrong'. " Depends on followup. if as we are told there is none planned, that changes everything. Hard to understand how pole pruning from the ground with a 7m tool cannot be done though... "The initiating of pollards on mature willows at a height of 2m, or even below first unions, must create tremendous dysfunction within the remaining tree/wood, enabling/allowing prime conditions for colonisation. Does that matter? I am trying to understand whether this is acceptable or worthwhile. What will the long term result be? What will long term be for trees treated in this way?" that was my question too. 2m would be below that first union, it appears. Hollowness of trunk and resultant instability seem inevitable, as viewed from waaaaay over here. but Gerrit's prognosis would be more experienced. So the Tree Foundations can sue the other government agencies to change tree practices? Tree Boards in the US would not even dream of such power--awesome! :big grin: don't let it go to your head...

Belonging to them all to stay in touch sounds like a great ideal but I could not do it in the US context. We have ISA for the individual, TCIA for the companies, and ASCA for the consultants. I quit the latter 2 as it was just too much to try to participate meaningfully in all 3. Just paying dues and getting newsletters etc does not seem worthwhile imo. Merger won't happen here--too many competing interests and fears of jobs lost--so instead we have wasteful overlapping certs and initiatives, and a diluted industry voice. In this era of globalization I would tend to agree it would be ideal for AA to merge with/become the UK&I *I*SA chapter, as the best way to merge efforts with folks in other countries. If that is people can look beyond their own short-term interests.

Pollarding is in the US ANSI standards, and also is covered there under "restoration pruning" It's in the BS thing too i am told. What are you expecting from "proven academics"? Few of them climb. Have you read Dr. David Lonsdale's book on tree risk? It's well-mentioned there, as i recall. The ball is rolling; you'll have to go faster than a trot to catch up!

Along with grazing and fungus, maybe the pruning was a tad too severe and depleting?

Thank you, sir. Context clarifies Objective, which is Step #1 in any pruning plan. Best of fortunes in your political career! Every region should have a tree foundation that is not merely advisory, but has real power.