treeseer

...in the 10 years s/he has been there--as Gerrit notes, that tree was whacked hard; looks like 10-15 years ago. Sun damage, root dieback after topping, concrete pavement (when did that go in?) and culturing moisture-loving plants at the base, filling on the flare, are all factors. If the owner really wants to keep the tree, clearing around the base and exposing the root collar would seem to come first, as a path to fungal ID as well as basic care.

Homage to Slowhand and the Allmans there... anyway we went to look at 12 leylands today; been in the ground since 1982, that is old for the US. Oozing around the trunk areas where 2 branches died; took samples to the state lab, waiting for results. Soil pH 5.3 droughty high ground, planted well, flare to grade. They doubt Seiridium, which was my first hypothesis. Any other guesses/input welcome; I understand there are a few of these lovelies in the UK.

Expertize: Gravity did it. Clever: Tree wanted to get away from people up the hill. ok maybe not clever. Tree fell because fill soil killed roots. Too wet, no air. Tree in picture was filled on when road was built decades ago. Looked good until it fell on a car. Widow sued state, saying trunk wound and crown decline were red flags, actable defects. State's expert showed lack of connection between aboveground conditions and the cause of the failure. Plaintiff settled. A small dose of fill can do damage: when we go back to work on ArbNews_2011_08web - Copy.pdf I'll collect some soil to see if a lab or someone can look for fungal structures. I may be posting pics here as I know little about that, and it's not the primary focus of treatments. Restoring good air and water levels to the old roots is our job.

1. As I said several times before, Nectria infections are not associated with black oozing. C. fagisuga is exclusively associated with the (later) presence of N. coccinea (see photo 1), that only causes bark deformations (see photo 2), i.e. not cankers. And only N. ditissima and N. galligena cause the formation of cankers (see photo 3 and 4) on beech. Well then North American mycologists need to identify the cause of those lesions then! 2. IME with indigenous oaks on the European continent, no (see photo 5). Has drying out or otherwise treating Arm. infections ever been formally studied over there? 3. Sure, but the main cause of the infection with parasitic Armillaria on the European continent is excessive nitrification for which can not be compensated by whatever method used.... a forest is not a (managed) garden with trees and neither an arborist nor a forest ecologist is a gardener... Gerrit, here again the difference is clarified. Arborists manage trees and their associates in the landscape, not the forest. If installing a new associate helps the tree, that's in the realm of arboriculture. If forest ecologists will not intervene to that extent, that seems to be a limitation they have in prescribing care for landscape trees. Has anyone looked--formally, anecdotally, in any way, at alternative methods for managing Arm. that may be due to nitrification, short of tree removal? If not, is it scientifically accurate to say that no other method will compensate for nitrification? Thank you for bearing with these questions from an underinformed arborist.

Thank you very much!

1. Caused by what pathogen or pathogens ? Attributed to Nectria sp. " In North America, the disease results when the beech scale insect, Cryptococcus fagisuga, attacks the bark, creating a wound. Later, two different fungi (Nectria coccinea var. faginata and Nectria galligena) common to North America can invade the tree through the wound, causing a canker to form." 2. Of course not. Parasitic Armillaria's first kill and degrade the living tissues leaving behind a stable tree "corpse" before its mycelium starts decomposing dead wood outside in and for the first time fruits. So the question is, will trees respond to the exposure/drying protocol, done successfully on tree crops, by compartmentalizing the infection? Quercus alba in the disturbed landscape has closed Armillaria infections, with no sign of interior decay, even to a tomograph. 3. Yes, it's enough to trigger the further spreading of the rhizomorphs. That is surprising--how susceptible the tree, and how strong the pathogen! What about the Disease Triangle? Don't factors like condition, vitality, location, site moisture, and strength of inoculum, play a part in the rate and inevitability of infection? Could the culturing of compatible/symbiotic plants reduce nitrogen levels enough to make a difference?

Does Nectria typically pop up in fissures in the UK? And is it generally a weak parasite? Fungus I believe said that it never invades live wood. I've seen it enter live branches with no outward sign of other pathogens paving the way, but then again I am not looking as closely as he is!

Alternatives to felling, by "active arborists"--very good!--INactive arborists would have so little to show... Looks like a great lineup--wishing you success! Several valuation formulae in the US. Cost of Cure fits many situations; not sure if it would work for that oak that was by the road.

ID: From the pics it resembles what is called "beech bark disease". Dry black droplets at cankers; bleeding lesions. A few smooth black patches inside; aka melanine plaque, or...? I see these types of signs in several species here, and am in need of education: where in these pics is a sign that *proves* armillaria infection? Management: Has significant strength been lost yet? If not, is any management required at this point? I could see 10% off the top, in hopes of budbreak further down, but no more. Is 10% really enough to throw the pathogen (Arm or...) into an aggressive fury? If the 10% removed were the least productive branches at the periphery, might this not be a rejuvenative treatment? What about 5%? 15%? Tree response: did you see how deep decay went, or locate the lateral margins of the infection, to see 1 what % of the circumference it occupies, and 2 whether the tree was callusing there? These typically more than anything are the best guides to management imo. One strategy is to mark and measure and photograph the margins, then return and compare. The Appropriate Response Process, it was called. If the owner is not pressing for an immediate decision, is it not best to let the tree have a say in its own fate? It does not look good, and next to the driveway may or may not be a desired location for a monolith, so I'm not voting to retain, at any height. But it seems premature to vote fell, or vote at all, before the extent of the problem is better understood.

Beautiful Liriodendron. Very common here; filled the chestnut's niche post-blight. Looks like it was topped/pollarded/reduced hard at 5 m but came back stable?! with its reputation as weak-wooded, straight-grained, quick-rotting, it's surprising to me that structure has held up all this time/. Never saw one layer (grow roots from branches on ground) before. common in other species, can be forced.

Hm well i was not thinking at all, apparently. In the past I've used white or silver paint to avoid sun damage.

The difference between branch and stem can be challenging to figure out.

Nectria popping out in fissures, do not know what tan flaky stuff is. Host is red oak, maybe rubra.

Excellent, thanks. I wonder--is that primary fork a hazard to split? Not he best angle, but it looks a bit dodgy from the street.

1. N. galligena can only be distinguished from N. ditissima (see my avatar for a photo of a 56 years old "exploded" target canker on beech) Ah, so that's the story behind that cool picture! by identifying the species from the extremely rare teleomorphs and because of that, N. galligena is often mistaken for N. ditissima. Besides, N. galligena only is partically agressive on Malus what about fagus? and is considered to be a secondary parasite ocurring after frost damage to the trunk. 2. N. cinnabarina is restricted to dead or living twigs and branches and does not invade living tissues of stems. well it does enter (recently) living branches, on several species, such as beeches and oaks--is there a particular pathogen that paves the way for it? scotspine, the tree is 1' from the driveway, and about 20' from the garage, and 30' from the house itself. Risk of uprooting is very low--what does house location matter?

OK, all good. The time to judge a pruning job is not right after, but 3 years after. Our job is to view client goals in light of our knowledge of biology and ecology, compromise and determine objectives, then write and carry out specifications. It will be interesting to see how that one regrows--can you click it again in 12 or 24 months?

ok thanks guys. N. coccinea and N. ditissima are rare here. "Neonectria galligena var. faginata" does seem worse, forming target cankers. N. cinnabarina does move from dead branches to living stems, but i do not know if another pathogen clears the way for it. hama, no way to halo without killing a fine q alba. lime wash, yes, gotta try that sometime. i'll be a couple years before revisting this tree again; busted their budget this time round.

What were the objectives? No idea how nice the job was, without knowing WHAT the job was. BS or ANSI, objectives determine specifications. "I would class that as a good gutting out or a thin," good as in thorough; "gutting" is also a term used in the US, not often in praise however... "I would think its cut back to the path or gutter on the shed" Pics can be deceiving, but that cluster of cut ends look to be metres away from the gutter, and metres above any path....

More pics of the ends, with 10 years of bird and fungus activity. Nectria cinnabarina i think are the red dots, but they are smoother here than on oak. K.d. following, don't recognize anything else.

I don't work with too many beech, so looking for experienced input. 1. Central leader broken out by ice 10 years ago, cut back to the first good nodes at the time, no sprouting since (shaded by itself and big trees nearby). lower lateral on the right has good vitality-- 2. shows 2 sprouts coming off that end. lack of decay at the pruning cut is a good thing, but the degree of rot from sun damage was a tad disconcerting when i saw it after ascending on it with 200 pounds (10 stone?) of me and gear. shoulda shoulda painted exposed tissue with reflective paint? 3. is the ends, with 10 years of bird and fungus activity. Nectria cinnabarina i think are the red dots, but they are smoother here than on oak. K.d. following, don't recognize anything else. Is there is a tssm/tsse aspect that would inform management? Presently the "dead"/non-sprouting leader has not rotted enough to incite safety issues. the client was displeased with the ugly factor until leaf-out, but I told her that cutting would accelerate decay, so get over it. I'm inclined to tether if/when decay leads to risk, as this is over their driveway. Suggestions?

pretty much, but i know members in uk and oz. Joining first year is a great deal--discount typically, lots of freebies; all US standards, lots of bizniss stuff too.

Agreed; closure at the top shows that the crack/area of concern is not getting larger; hence low risk of failure. Probing might tell you a lot more. Not sure about that pointy/blunt thing...?

Tony, you make it clear that your focus on fungus is equal to your focus on trees. I'm just following your words, or trying to. If your undies are too twisted over disagreements--rubs? -- to look at areas of agreement, please untwist them, or we're both wasting time. The soil food web is real, and if we want to manage the tree we have to, where possible, manage the tree's ecosystem, let's agree on that. "Manage" btw is different from "control"--more like influence or interact with, not pretending to dominate.

Rubbing? Britspeak for...? Rubaduddub, ten in a pub... In thousands of articles and (chapters in) books on mycology and forest ecology, authors say fungus plays the leading role. No surprise there! But the web is real, and if we want to manage the tree we have to, where possible, manage the tree's ecosystem, let's agree on that.

So cyanobacteria and microfungi advanced evolution 400 million years ago. This is today. Yes there is a web. Where's the proof that fungi play the leading part? hama, exaggerating does not prove anything--"maybe so" is not "ignoring", and you can demonize US practice all you want. No tete a tete possible when each party talks past the other. fuggetaboutit.