treeseer

Yes that one seems to be doing well. It's hard to say exactly when that cord should be cut--I've tethered them when risk was an issue but the biology seemed to counsel waiting. One downside to waiting on most trees is getting more rot in the trunk, but premature removal may also cause that. also I'm wondering why that apprentice left the stub...?

"1. If the RPA of a tree inhibits a development the options are: a)no development b)remove tree c)engineering solutions d)depending on the value of the tree and it's location, breach the RPA and hope it survives?????(This is ill advised of course, but in some circumstances better than removal?)" Other options include helping the tree survive some breaches and intrusions e) Enlarge the RPA beyond that circle, where conditions favor. f) Improve rooting conditions in the RPA--aerate, inoculate, fertilise, mulch... g) Reduce tree to reduce demands on roots (yes obviously this can be overdone and backfire, so it is at the bottom of the list) "2. The BS5837 indicates it is acceptable to undertake certain work within an RPA, such as hand digging, thrust boring, pile foundations and radial trenching. These would inevitably lead to a limited loss of rooting environment an damage to some roots. In a similar context, could removal of a shallow layer of soil(250m) within the outer area of an RPA be an acceptable intrusion." NO excavation, on most sites: as Paul notes, find another way. Grading down is not in the same context as specified vertical intrusions. Have you done a soil survey with long probes, to see where the roots are? If they run deep on that site, that would be a factor in the decision to allow excavation--of soil, not roots. "Assuming the roots are mainly within the top 600mm of soil horizon removing 250mm of soil, pruning any damaged/exposed roots, replacing 250mm of soil with cellular material and clean granular infill, area of RPA impinged upon 2m of 4.5m radius." That's a huge impingement (?) "3. Does the species and height of trees allow for reduced RPAs ( if compromise is needed)? For example, a mature Hawthorn may command a fairly large RPA. I think they are worthy of as much protection as any other tree but in reality the mechanical implications of lost roots are not as severe compared to loftier species." Yes, of course. If BS5837 does not have an adjustment for species and condition it is far too rigid. Our scale slides down to .5 for tolerant species, and up to 1.5 for old vets. I like working with infill development, because I do not like urban sprawl.

"Is this your work ? I'll take the blame for it. "Did you offer to the client as a way to stabilise an already drooping branch or just as an experiment for interest?" Pro bono work on a public tree, and the limb did not really need stabilizing, so it's an experiment, for personal interest at first. Now that it has succeeded, it's grist for the publishing mill. The case of the Walking Matilda, set in oz, perhaps. Also will share with the U folk fwiw. Layering is an old-school propagation method for fruit like citrus etc. but never heard of it with oak. One unwelcome result: when the layered progeny takes off on its own, the parent branch tends to wither and shed, like an unneeded umbilical cord. .

Absolutely, that would retain wildlife value, so nature could do more of her thangs, and the tree last longer. why why why? 1 Because it is there. 2 Retaining the tree may also retain the kind of habitat that serves the kind of wildlife that the owner is interested in. Saproxylic red-listers and all that.

In the US we have NASCAR where they whip around a tiny track. I went to one and got dizzy watching but was struck by the courage and tenacity needed to round those corners, to time a passing maneuver for the victory. Driver works in concert with machine (and the men that make the machine work as it does), and wind, centrifugal force, light, thrust, pure physics. Paeans aside, maybe a .1% improvement in image transmission is not worth the loss of assets that would benefit us and our kids the rest of our days. Where are those TPOs when we need them? Is there an arborist on the committees planning these works? Or at least a resident who can see beyond the Games' impact? And is the "exotics out!" card being played out of hand?

This guess can be proven by removing dead tissue and looking for rhizomorphs or mycelial mats. It looks from here more like another pathogen, such as phytophthora. A blunt-tipped knife will excise dead bark without breaking barriers. A pic of those Armillaria structures would be awesome. The tree in your first pic is totally flecked; several bad guys at work there, phytophthora the least of its worries.

Their BMPs are the best investment there--Pruning, Support, etc... though the Study Guide is a great general reference, and the tests drive it home. I got a lot out of getting ISA-certified--paid consultations instead of free estimates, etc.--but I am in the US.

Q virginiana is good at layering. One can intervene and force it by scraping off bark and pressing into moldy earth, with 2x2 and nails (tho screws would have been better), and a couple years. this one's browsed by the dam deer, otherwise thriving. Soft green strap pulls limb down under tension, without girdling when spiraled.

Seems to need crown cleaning even more--with that crack, getting weight off seems like a plan. Then a cable would protect the structure long-term.

prune or keep? i like to keep them--not a disease. all in the eye of the beholder.

I agree; the most progress to date is finding that some explanations are more likely than others. The story took a bit of a turn to removing fill dirt, because that is what happened on the job. And when genetics is the most likely explanation, that leaves little for this tree guy to expound upon!

Nice to see the pics of sorbs and beech with "washboard" language. I am not hearing tissue failure or decay in these phenomena, as much as genetics. "As described in the Updated Field Guide to VTA, "fiber buckling and bulgewood....the cross ribs are bulgewood after 45 degree sliding of the fibres along the shear planes." It may be very explainable in individuals but seems extraordinary in a group. What kind of stresses create this phenomena? The beech stem I posted previously is similar. Easier to explain on a bough with the stresses of supporting it than on what seem to be fairly upright trees. Is it something to do with local wind patterns perhaps? Will await your interpretation with interest!" dendro washboard.pdf

Yes, and a short leash for backup should the lock give way. Midlife crisis at 40; hahahaha! At 60 the same angst will roil--toss it out and carry on! Fear of success is worse than fear of failure. Arboriculture is the practice and study of the care of trees and other woody plants in the landscape. If you put myco- in the forefront that is mycology or ecology; a tangential variant of arboriculture. That bacterial-minded Aussie--SR, perhaps? Or SF?

on the cable and reduction, no point field grown landscape tree, let it be, Assuming that the owner values it in its current shape, and would mind terribly if it started to fall apart, then there is indeed a point to holding it together. Target rating is not just people property and activities. Trees have value, and are the first loss in any tree failure, and must be part of TRA calculations. just there for the discussion, purpose fulfilled. As was the cabling prescription. Assuming there is a point to holding the tree together, it would be a candidate for cabling, would it not?

Trees destabilized by removal of lower branches to culture turf grass. They picked up a bad lesson from western habits; we should learn good lessons from their propping, common in Singapore etc. too.

planted in amongst toxic rhododendrons it was bound to have a hard time and be susceptible." toxic meaning...infected? infectable? It may always be susceptible, but burying the tree deep is just asking for trouble. And uncovering the flare is part of the diagnosis--no Rx without an RCX.

Re grinding the stump, look for signs of the disease and decide? Re the disease, is removal the only treatment mentioned by the govt? If they are heavily advising / ordering these removals, to remove common soil borne pathogens, can that strategy succeed?

Re the Aesculus, have you considered Agrobacterium sp.? This can get in at failed grafts and cause cankers similar to what is pictured. Re what to do about it; reduce 20-30% of the sprawl and install a cable, is one obvious approach. Re the twisting beech, WOW. Re the others, a lot of guesswork on the possible fungal origins of tree growth patterns, much of which may be accurate. But what to do about it? That seems to be the big question. Fungus may often win in the end and digest the whole tree, but in the interim...?

the attached is one look at it, with some guidelines that seemed to make some sense to me at some time. some of the threads here are very good indeed. This below is basic, with little said about reducing. Like Shigo on "tipping", it's not in much detail.....................Pruning Mature Trees Pruning is the most common tree maintenance procedure. Although forest trees grow quite well with only nature's pruning, landscape trees require a higher level of care to maintain their safety and aesthetics. Pruning should be done with an understanding of how the tree responds to each cut. Improper pruning can cause damage that will last for the life of the tree, or worse, shorten the tree's life. Reasons for Pruning Because each cut has the potential to change the growth of the tree, no branch should be removed without a reason. Common reasons for pruning are to remove dead branches, to remove crowded or rubbing limbs, and to eliminate hazards. Trees may also be pruned to increase light and air penetration to the inside of the tree’s crown or to the landscape below. In most cases, mature trees are pruned as a corrective or preventive measure. Routine thinning does not necessarily improve the health of a tree. Trees produce a dense crown of leaves to manufacture the sugar used as energy for growth and development. Removal of foliage through pruning can reduce growth and stored energy reserves. Heavy pruning can be a significant health stress for the tree. Yet if people and trees are to coexist in an urban or suburban environment, then we sometimes have to modify the trees. City environments do not mimic natural forest conditions. Safety is a major concern. Also, we want trees to complement other landscape plantings and lawns. Proper pruning, with an understanding of tree biology, can maintain good tree health and structure while enhancing the aesthetic and economic values of our landscapes. When to Prune Most routine pruning to remove weak, diseased, or dead limbs can be accomplished at any time during the year with little effect on the tree. As a rule, growth is maximized and wound closure is fastest if pruning takes place before the spring growth flush. Some trees, such as maples and birches, tend to “bleed” if pruned early in the spring. It may be unsightly, but it is of little consequence to the tree. A few tree diseases, such as oak wilt, can be spread when pruning wounds allow spores access into the tree. Susceptible trees should not be pruned during active transmission periods. Heavy pruning just after the spring growth flush should be avoided. At that time, trees have just expended a great deal of energy to produce foliage and early shoot growth. Removal of a large percentage of foliage at that time can stress the tree. Making Proper Pruning Cuts Pruning cuts should be made just outside the branch collar. The branch collar contains trunk or parent branch tissue and should not be damaged or removed. If the trunk collar has grown out on a dead limb to be removed, make the cut just beyond the collar. Do not cut the collar. If a large limb is to be removed, its weight should first be reduced. This is done by making an undercut about 12 to 18 inches from the limb’s point of attachment. Make a second cut from the top, directly above or a few inches farther out on the limb. Doing so removes the limb, leaving the 12- to 18-inch stub. Remove the stub by cutting back to the branch collar. This technique reduces the possibility of tearing the bark. Pruning Techniques Specific types of pruning may be necessary to maintain a mature tree in a healthy, safe, and attractive condition. Cleaning is the removal of dead, dying, diseased, crowded, weakly attached, and low-vigor branches from the crown of a tree. Thinning is the selective removal of branches to increase light penetration and air movement through the crown. Thinning opens the foliage of a tree, reduces weight on heavy limbs, and helps retain the tree’s natural shape. Raising removes the lower branches from a tree in order to provide clearance for buildings, vehicles, pedestrians, and vistas. Reduction reduces the size of a tree, often for clear- ance for utility lines. Reducing the height or spread of a tree is best accomplished by pruning back the leaders and branch terminals to lateral branches that are large enough to assume the terminal roles (at least one-third the diameter of the cut stem). Compared to topping, reduction helps maintain the form and structural integrity of the tree. How Much Should Be Pruned? The amount of live tissue that should be removed depends on the tree size, species, and age, as well as the pruning objectives. Younger trees tolerate the removal of a higher percentage of living tissue better than mature trees do. An important principle to remember is that a tree can recover from several small pruning wounds faster than from one large wound. A common mistake is to remove too much inner foliage and small branches. It is important to maintain an even distribution of foliage along large limbs and in the lower portion of the crown. Overthinning reduces the tree’s sugar production capacity and can create tip-heavy limbs that are prone to failure. Mature trees should require little routine pruning. A widely accepted rule of thumb is never to remove more than one-quarter of a tree’s leaf-bearing crown. In a mature tree, pruning even that much could have negative effects. Removing even a single, large-diameter limb can create a wound that the tree may not be able to close. The older and larger a tree becomes, the less energy it has in reserve to close wounds and defend against decay or insect attack. The pruning of large mature trees is usually limited to removal of dead or potentially hazardous limbs. Restoration Pruning Arborist News_2010_06.pdf

Festooned with fungi! Re xylaria, that seems to resemble a stage of Kretzschmaeria. I think I need to take a closer look before naming next time...

You might try moving mulch and soil so you can inspect the whole stem. Buried flares invite infections.

I wouldn't say that, but agree. In my market, re-topping is seldom primary in the conversation. Customers are fairly educated. Cutting to nodes a ways out where the branch tapers, and leaving some "sap risers" could properly be called restoration/partial pollarding. Size of wound is paramount imo for tree health and safety. These threads are useless without pictures from the op. The use of written specs based on citable standards is the best-accepted form of education. Who likes lectures? . Restoration Pruning Arborist News_2010_06.pdf

What work is allowed? Why do you feel this is not the way to go? Any consultant report that sets out to give you what you want will first have to answer these questions.

Hm yes that's all I see. Eyes and mind playing tricks again; seeing fung where there is none? Happens to me too. Mayhaps a bit of objectivism might hold back that wandering? Thanks David for documenting this. Had those wounds been pruned/traced at time of injury, and the roots invigorated, one wonders if closure may have outpaced infection. Could have been an entirely different prognosis?

Nice use of tomograph image to seal the deal. Not a decision to take lightly. 32.8m = 100 feet; the decimal dropped it seems.