Charlieh

is it the ops note 9 your after??? the standard operation costs http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/ewgs-on009-standard-costs.pdf/$FILE/ewgs-on009-standard-costs.pdf

I probably use more propeller than most people, cant say i have had any problem on my leather chainsaw boots, once i started using it though my wellingtons perished fairly quickly but they were getting on a bit anyway but no probs on my chainsaw boots

Interestingly I know two sites that had the young trees cleared off because they were supposedly infected and neither are on that map. I suspect this will go up fairly quickly now in number of sites as the results of the rapid assessment survey thats been going on over the last week should have all been submitted last night, where by four ash containing woodlands will have been surveyed in every 10km square of England, which has been a logistical nightmare. In terms of type of woodland we were also asked to check roadside and hedgerow trees as there is no reason that these are less likily to get Chalara than woodland trees, infact given the movement of vehicles and people along the road network these could be the ones that show the first symptoms. If you want a look I would contact your local FC Field Manager for East Anglia as they would be in the best position to help you out, Im not sure who that is down there though sorry, remember two sets of clothes/disposable spray suit and some propeller if you did go to an infected site for biosecurity reasons

from the operators manual

did you run it up to start with as per the owners manual (daft as it sounds) as it sounds like your auto tune isnt set up right

I have messaged the Head of Tree Health Diagnostic & Advisory Service for Forest Research, as soon as I get a response I will let you know.

No but from what I've seen within the industries in relation to P ramorum the effort has been pitiful. I have had been out on sites with people looking to quote for works and they dont have any disinfection equipment at all. I for one would welcome anything that helps prevent plant health problems spreading if a voluntary scheme could be drawn up then this would be great. I think the best thing people could do is read the pdf from forestry commission and watch that FERA video until they are confidant they know what they are looking for, watch it time and time again. Or try and get someone from FERA/FC to do awareness events in each region although to an extent this already happens but you have to be on mailing lists for organisation such as RFS (not nessicarily membership), ICF, AA, or projects such as Woodfuel East, Heartwoods, Cumbria Woodlands, Yorwoods etc etc as these organisations will be running events. If Arbtalk wanted a guide for best practise I can contact one of the guys at FR to get a brief outline as a starting point?

When I say report it if you think its infected I dont mean ring FC/FERA every time you see an ash tree but if you come across one of the symptoms in the excelent FERA video then definatly involve them. All of the FC area officer staff and FERA field staff are out doing surveys of all ash woods and areas where ash is a dominant species. The disease has been present since 1992 in europe, but as mentioned elsewhere its not 100% fatality as DED was, this leaves you with a reserve of resistant trees. but how would any blanket policy be enforced? you cant stop people working on ash, it comprises about 30% of our hardwood woodland component so its virtually impossible to bring in felling restrictions at that shorter notice. I agree imported trees should have been stopped with immediate effect especially as know the guidance seems to be not to plant any this winter in woodland creation schemes. There is no way that felled timber already on the deck can be monitored interms of movements, and the only way to deliver this is to restrict felling of ash through felling licenses the same way Larch have been and zone the risk accordinly, no felling licenses until the trees can be checked in leaf etc. The downside to this there are sites where people will be felling without licenses, FC have no remit over garden trees and local authority tree officers have enough on their plates without having to attend everytime someone wants to work on ash tree especially if its not TPO. Im being awkward just for the sake of debate, not that i disagree with you whilst im aware this isnt fantastic news it does mean there is long term a glimer of hope, and we dont know how many of the uk trees have this genetic resistance

thats TPO's not felling licenses To be fair if your felling a licensable volume of timber and removing it you would be safer getting a license rather than facing a compulsory restocking order from FC if they dont believe you it was all dead (dying isnt a valid reason), as this is a very costly process and there is no grant aid if its compulsory restocking

I dont think pruning cuts will prove any more of a risk than is already present as it can become infect leaf material. I would suggest if your encountering anything that looks remotely iffy burning on site would be preferable (unless you think its Chalara in which case contact FC or FERA). I certainly wouldnt consider chipping deadwood etc at this time unless your 100% confident that its not diseased. I dont think FC can be accused of slow response on this as everyone I know in FC is currently working on this as their main priority. Yes more preventative measures could have been put in place possibly but this is more the remit of FERA and DEFRA than FC. As I mentioned on the other thead there is plenty of info about the disease on here Homepage I would suggest that as a precautionary measure using the same disinfectants as for P ramorum for giving kit a good clean down before and after working on ash trees. The chemical is Propeller from Evans Chemical Supplies - 01209 213643,

Reading some documents from guys at FR that a certain % of parent trees will show resistance to Chalara. FC operations appear to be putting costings together for sanitation of sites where outbreaks have occured although my gut feeling is that its probably not viable and could just be a waste of money, especially if you end up actually removing trees in an area which may be resistance and therefore be key to re-population ash Here is some more info including scientific papers for those of you that have access to these, although some have the full paper available directly from the site http://www.fraxback.eu/index.php?option=com_content&view=featured&Itemid=435 Im going to ask the mods to sticky this thread

If its dead then no, if its dying then yes. I would say to be on the safe side get a felling license, if you do an EWGS 1+4 (i think from memory )rather than a straight felling license you should be eligable for a restocking payment to help pay for the trees going back in

would you use the meths based disinfectant as recommended Tony or is there a reason for sticking to boiling water as I thought forest research didnt consider this to be suitable for P ramorum. Just wondered if you thought the industrial meths could have a detrimental impact on mycoriza etc or is it just for practicality etc?

Done, but as I work on P ramorum infected sites my answers will probably be quite different to others

ms150 was a nice saw, very light slightly quicker in the cut and bit better anti vibs but its about £180 more expensive!!! so it depends on how often your using it agree with Chris I would like to get a go on a 543xp but this isnt going to be in this class of saw.

had a run of a ms150 yesterday

what makes you so confident about this when FERA and FC is considering this currently:confused1: There is an import ban on ash, and most planting schemes including ash are on hold, FC are planting none currently on their sites My biggest issue currently is the biosecurity set ups of most woodland contractors and advisors which quite frankly is pi$$ poor I will be interested to see what they think the pathway was that lead to it being in a woodland trust wood, as if its being transported by visitors then the level of access to some woods should be considered being restricted

how about mobility of pathogens including P. Ramorum in realation to wild animal movements, as its widely accepted that deer and badgers move the disease about but it would be interesting to monitor paterns of spread in sites where there is little human activity. It would certainly help in the knowledge of pathways for the disease, probably more a Phd than BSc thesis though

There is currently a lot of concearn as to the fact this could be airbourne and coming over the channel although this hasnt been confirmed it is being widely speculated about. FC have it as their No 1 priority currently with area staff out checking ash woodlands I have attached the FC symptoms guide to identifying the disease, and I would urge anyone in the Arb or Forestry sector to familiarise themselves with the symptoms and if in any doubt contact FC plant health Forestry Commission - Plant Health - Contactsor FERA Contact Plant Health Symptoms_guide_Chalara_dieback_of_ash_2012[1].pdf

I would read this Forestry Commission - P. ramorum - national update if you have any questions contact your local FC area officer or havesting manager for guidance, as generally movement vehicles have to be licensed with FC you need facilities to steam clean equipment on and off site, as well as stripping and dissinfecting small kit such as chainsaw and clothing. Once you have totally peeled the bark, what are you going to do with it? as it needs to be burnt on site really. I dont think FC would be very happy licensing the timber coming off site for firewood is my experience in this instance, certainly not for wider sale, although for the woodland owners own use this may be consented. If your peeling bark off then removing timber to process else where (or on site to an extent) how are you going to ensure that the debarked timber doesnt come into contact with peelings or the ground. You will also need to do a full disinfection of the peeling area post operational works. I would strongly suggest seeking professional advice from FC on this issue to prevent yourself getting into trouble over notifiable plant health issues. If you want a chat on the phone PM me your phone number and I will try and help and be a bit more specific if its of use to you, otherwise I would strongly advise contacting your local area office who will have consented the felling in the first place, as you may find there were stipulations on the felling license/distruction notice as to how operations need to be completed Charlie

I try and price forestry jobs to give the hand cutters I use a decent day rate. I won't work on tonnage as a lot of what we do is either utter rubbish or on SSSI type sites so the quality of job is as important as prices in some cases although its not profit driven it cant be a loss maker (unless the extraction costs make it a fell to waste job). I have done my fair share of felling but recently have been trying to get a couple of local lads trained up so I can concentrate on chasing more work, I have hammered into them that we can make as bigger saving with forwarding and extraction if timber is well presented, and well i think the pictures speak for themselves If a decent price isnt paid there is no incentive to strive for quality of work (as has been mentioned already). By paying a fair day rate they can afford to invest in equipment and actually up productivity these lads will graft and those logs at the back of the larch photo are 3.7's dragged into heaps for the forwarder I think these type of lads are going to become more and more valuable as difficult sites come into a productive phase and harvesters cant get on the ground for extraction. I a recent talk with a harvesting manager for FC Wales their biggest issue over the next 5 years is going to be a lack of decent handcutters and specialist extraction equipment for working steep terrain.

2.99cu mtrs from the blue book if your measurements and my calculations are correct

Well putting it on an 8" carving bar has made it great for careful coppicing etc but its a lot slower than a pro saw such as a 346 mine gets used on the alstor a lot as its tiny so handy for storing out the way on the off chance you need to sned something or if your just walking round tidying up the woods so carrying it long distances. It doesn't get a huge amount of use but definitely worth having for the cost

yes but at least they cleared all the deadwood to make the woodland "safe" and the high value ash that they looked at had a fork in it at less than 6ft up the trunk looked like firewood to me. Felt like a bit of a let down really

grass and nettles i use either a 2.7 or 3mm normal line head, for the bramble i use the two pronged mulching head like this Oregon 2 Tooth Brushcutter Blade - New Saw Chains not found one head that will do everything easily