arboriculturist

Here here ! Originally Posted by R5log View Post It kept going a fair bit! I'm on a decent rhi rate 5-7 days for about 18 cubic metres As you can see R5 is being realistic about drying times with a B Boiler - 5 - 7 days and you can be sure he has decent dry fuel.

Have you an idea of fuel and associated labour costs that need to be deducted from the 20K RHI ? Thanks

As usual, candid, interesting and informative advice - Thanks.

So given that it appears that the general public has no interest in how and why their Firewood is produced, they just want dry wood, it seems that a batch boiler on the > 200kWh 3.76p tariff can still be a low risk viable proposition. Do you dry Firewood to retail, as that HM chip boiler and installation is a little luxurious for personal use? !

Apologies - remembered your earlier post :

Fair comments, however I think that at present the vast majority of the general public are unaware that the country's supplies of useable timber are declining and in addition they are subsidising businesses who burn wood to dry wood to make it saleable, when they buy ' kiln dried' firewood. As we all appreciate 'kiln dried to 20% MC is no different than 'naturally air dried to 20% MC,. That said it is clear that the public are on occasion mis-informed when I read articles/editorials that claim that 'Kiln dried' is superior. I was making the point, that to invest around 40K on a NEW kiln drying installation with a payback of around 9 years is a high risk strategy.

It appears that many underestimate the fact that maintaining close to 80 degrees water temp. with a batch boiler is an uphill struggle unless you have perfect fuel and the labour to manage the boiler. I think that many who think their 'kiln dried' wood is actually the final moisture content they assume it is, would be shocked at high how the MC actually is on average throughout the container if they were to oven try a range of representative samples to determine the true average MC of a complete batch. Those investing 38K on a new setup, are facing an increasing risk of public awareness, as some of the people I have spoken to about kiln dried are not keen on buying firewood based on a production process that is partly funded by their Income Tax contributions. This is purely the findings of my market research and one of the first rules of business is 'always carry out market research'. I would be interested if other's have found this to be the case when researching the market.

Probably this is why I know of knowone in the past 12 months who has installed a Chip boiler and only a handfull of GF Batch based systems at 38K.

I thought it would be a HH installation - neat. Ooh, 85 degrees C - I didn,t realise that. Stoking a batch boiler and attempting to maintain a constant internal temp. 24/7 with unsociable hours labour shortfalls is an impossible task, as it adds well over a day to a drying cycle. I can see clearly why you didn't personally go down that route. IYO - Does drying 'still' stack up then if you were to commission a new installation with a Heiz. > 200kW h ? I am guessing the Heiz. would be around 70K and 30 - 50 K for the ancillaries - does that sound like a ball park figure?

Duffryn - did u see the above message ?

I see your point - 10ft HQ with two 54 kwh heat exchangers serviced by a 198 kW h chip boiler with a nominal capacity of app. 165kW h. Would it not improve drying times to run boiler at 90 - 95 deg. C or are there fuel efficiency issues as higher temperatures?

Would you not be better with less airflow and consequently a higher temperature?

It is easy to overlook you are running a top spec. chip boiler, maintaining 60 deg. 24/7, whereas most have huge temperature spikes with batch boilers and all the grief that is associated with managing one. Yes I can appreciate 3 days is adequate to produce a quality consistent product with your system design, well insulated. Did HH carry out the installation? I notice their biomass website won't load anymore from the H.mat website link? I can see there is still a model there to economically dry timber using > 200kw/h chip boiler to align with the higher commercial tarrif - hefty investment nevertheless, but practically labour free, hassle free and efficient. With space to stack the roundwood to like Cornishwoodburner to drop the MC and then contract chip, life would indeed be quiet with greatly reduced stress levels all round!

QUOTE: I can dry softwood logs in a day and hardwood in 2-3 days. Add a day to these times for big 50cm logs. How do you get such a low moisture starting point for Hardwoods ? Generally 50-60% is the norm. At that level I would have thought 4-5 days to reach 20%?

Well, that's disheartening to hear if indeed that is the case.

Great respect for saying what others dare not to. Human greed always shows up sooner or later and it just has to be accepted, however the bubble will burst for imports in due course for several reasons. One of which being, many end users don't realise that the wood they are buying is imported - when they do it will have an impact on their buying preferences. Keep Britain great - buy British. Good post Ed

There will always be horses for courses as you know Darrin. A Zig Zag is always an option and less of a learning curve, however once SJ technique is mastered, there is nothing as robust. Just watch an experienced user in action - says it all really. Need to get used to using the wood block and then its plain sailing, takes all the wear off the cam - last forever.

Can u post a photo?

An ART Spiderjack 2.1 Dyneema, an ART Positioner 2 with swivel, a Petzl Croll chest ascender and finally a CT foot ascender. Do we carry out Tree Surgery to make respectable money - No, we just like the climbing the Trees bit.

Reaching the inffed conveyor on the deck when lengths fall in more than 1 at a time and need sorting out.

I see the reasoning having the log deck facing the outdoors, but it must be a pain to manage the timber's behaviour on the deck on reaching the infeed conveyor.

I can see it makes personal financial sense to buy low cost imported timber, however to cut to the chase, buying British is what supports our economy. Economics aside, surely this is a flawed 'model' for your children's future, who will be living on this planet far longer than you and I?

What about the environmental and UK economy effects of importing kiln dried timber?

Sound advice - Thanks

That sort of makes the point re: Insurance cover