arboriculturist
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Everything posted by arboriculturist
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That sounds like a well organised, established setup !
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Do you kiln dry a few crates in each batch like most others and do you still dry a Batch in 5-6 days - 40 ft container? Thanks
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Excuse Ash - He's out re-fueling the Kiln boiler - again.
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Thanks Ash. Yes others I know have similar issues and most just live with it. Swapping cages around mid cycle is murder and therefore a non-starter. My early container back in the dark ages was heated bottom up 100% - that was a revolution, nevertheless the top layers would be the last to loose MC ! Another design ducted the drying air to multiple points along the container - that was a very effective innovation. I expect you oven dry representative log samples which is why you quote 5 - 6 days, very realistic as I assume you have approx. 150mm insulation. Have you thought about using hardwood to dry as it retains temp. much longer ?
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I expect as you have a similar container setup to Duffryn, you are looking at 3.5 - 5.5 days for green hard down to app. 20% MC ? Are you using solely Larch and Douglas like most others, processing down to 500mm split and drying 10% of capacity in the container for fire fuel per batch? Thanks
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It certainly look that way. Air dried hardwood retails for around 95 and kiln dried 130 around here, are your retail prices similar? Thanks
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Those are both options, GF or similar for 38K or a recommended european supplier. It must be the way I was brought up, as both of those options just don't sit comfortably with me. Maybe plain stupidity, as many say don't be ridiculus 'take the money and run'!
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Mmm - Batch boiler 60% efficient, I quite agree - that is realistic given all the variables and 3.5 days with your specific installation is as would be expected - efficient energy conservation etc. That makes drying the timber without RHI feasible if you avoid batch boilers, would you agree? As you are of an age that will still be using your boiler after the 20 years expires will you still dry without the tariff ?! Excuse all the endless questions.
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Just bog standard with no RHI.
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If 20 years was up today and the RHI payments ceased today, what do you think it would cost to dry your next batch of Firewood using chip at your current costs ? In addition if you had an oil boiler of the required rating linked to your installation what do you think it would cost to dry a batch using oil. This is really usefull to know for those who may have the option to use oil to dry or boost there own batch boilers at night but have no feed in tariff. I am not sure if you have posted before that you woudn't dismiss drying wihout the RHI if you had an unlimited supply of dry waste wood. Do you agree?
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Do you have an accumulator linked up to the boiler?
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Here here ! Originally Posted by R5log View Post It kept going a fair bit! I'm on a decent rhi rate 5-7 days for about 18 cubic metres As you can see R5 is being realistic about drying times with a B Boiler - 5 - 7 days and you can be sure he has decent dry fuel.
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Have you an idea of fuel and associated labour costs that need to be deducted from the 20K RHI ? Thanks
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As usual, candid, interesting and informative advice - Thanks.
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So given that it appears that the general public has no interest in how and why their Firewood is produced, they just want dry wood, it seems that a batch boiler on the > 200kWh 3.76p tariff can still be a low risk viable proposition. Do you dry Firewood to retail, as that HM chip boiler and installation is a little luxurious for personal use? !
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Wow - that's a comprehensive post. Just trying to keep dry at this end - rain since October! We need to get dry cover sorted before end of 2016 as productivity suffers. I for 1 are looking forward to your further posts, all much appreciated. Happy New Year.
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Apologies - remembered your earlier post :
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Fair comments, however I think that at present the vast majority of the general public are unaware that the country's supplies of useable timber are declining and in addition they are subsidising businesses who burn wood to dry wood to make it saleable, when they buy ' kiln dried' firewood. As we all appreciate 'kiln dried to 20% MC is no different than 'naturally air dried to 20% MC,. That said it is clear that the public are on occasion mis-informed when I read articles/editorials that claim that 'Kiln dried' is superior. I was making the point, that to invest around 40K on a NEW kiln drying installation with a payback of around 9 years is a high risk strategy.
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It appears that many underestimate the fact that maintaining close to 80 degrees water temp. with a batch boiler is an uphill struggle unless you have perfect fuel and the labour to manage the boiler. I think that many who think their 'kiln dried' wood is actually the final moisture content they assume it is, would be shocked at high how the MC actually is on average throughout the container if they were to oven try a range of representative samples to determine the true average MC of a complete batch. Those investing 38K on a new setup, are facing an increasing risk of public awareness, as some of the people I have spoken to about kiln dried are not keen on buying firewood based on a production process that is partly funded by their Income Tax contributions. This is purely the findings of my market research and one of the first rules of business is 'always carry out market research'. I would be interested if other's have found this to be the case when researching the market.
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Probably this is why I know of knowone in the past 12 months who has installed a Chip boiler and only a handfull of GF Batch based systems at 38K.
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I thought it would be a HH installation - neat. Ooh, 85 degrees C - I didn,t realise that. Stoking a batch boiler and attempting to maintain a constant internal temp. 24/7 with unsociable hours labour shortfalls is an impossible task, as it adds well over a day to a drying cycle. I can see clearly why you didn't personally go down that route. IYO - Does drying 'still' stack up then if you were to commission a new installation with a Heiz. > 200kW h ? I am guessing the Heiz. would be around 70K and 30 - 50 K for the ancillaries - does that sound like a ball park figure?
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Duffryn - did u see the above message ?
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I see your point - 10ft HQ with two 54 kwh heat exchangers serviced by a 198 kW h chip boiler with a nominal capacity of app. 165kW h. Would it not improve drying times to run boiler at 90 - 95 deg. C or are there fuel efficiency issues as higher temperatures?
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Would you not be better with less airflow and consequently a higher temperature?
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It is easy to overlook you are running a top spec. chip boiler, maintaining 60 deg. 24/7, whereas most have huge temperature spikes with batch boilers and all the grief that is associated with managing one. Yes I can appreciate 3 days is adequate to produce a quality consistent product with your system design, well insulated. Did HH carry out the installation? I notice their biomass website won't load anymore from the H.mat website link? I can see there is still a model there to economically dry timber using > 200kw/h chip boiler to align with the higher commercial tarrif - hefty investment nevertheless, but practically labour free, hassle free and efficient. With space to stack the roundwood to like Cornishwoodburner to drop the MC and then contract chip, life would indeed be quiet with greatly reduced stress levels all round!
