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I'm with Treeworld. Accreditation schemes are mainly for companies that can't, or can't be bothered to, work out a way to produce an endless stream of happy customers and referrals willing to pay for quality work. imo.

Spot on. I quit YPs 2 years ago. If you are unsure if any form of advertising is working properly or not test it for 2 months. Track every call and every call that turns into a job. I was ashamed when I finally did it to realise that I was throwing 3.5K out the window every year. I love Google!

Andy, I'm not hiding. My website is in my signature. I have never been a member of the Arb Assoc. but I do like the trade show they organise for our industry every year. I hope I haven't offended you with my post. I thought I was making a fair point.

Andy, publishing a list of professional tree firms doesn't really mean that everyone not on the list is unprofessional. I just don't see the problem.

Andy, if the AA is an independant charity, funded mostly by members' contributions can it not just do whatever it feels is right. Is it any business of anyone else how they go about things?

This might be a narrow view and a bit whack, but I'm only interested in working for good customers - ones that appreciate quality work and pay for it willingly. Danavan, your thread opener talks about firms bemoaning the lack of support and back-up. Do you mean in promoting their businesses and bringing in work? If so, I think that should be the sole responsibility of the tree firms themselves. Do you not think relying on a trade association to deliver customers is risky and a bit of a cop-out?

I think all these clubs, assessments and 'corgi-for-tree-surgeons' schemes are great for LAs, and I know builders love all that stuff too, but I really wouldn't bother in the domestic market. I reckon good customers know themselves how to find good firms.

Yes, it probably deserves a mention but, personally, I don't think it carries much weight with savvy customers. _________________________________ If you charge money for work, by definition you are professional. By law you should be insured. Qualifications are great and all, but can you actually deliver what the customer wants or is it all about you and and what you think they should want? Trying to separate yourself from guys 'just having a go' ain't much use either. Price shoppers won't be happy because even if you are cheap they'll still think someone else will be even cheaper. Don't try to appeal to everyone. Customers looking for the best job with minimal hassle are not too concerned with price. But they need to be sure from the start that the extra dollars will be worth it. They need evidence - a recommendation, pictures of your work (not just of you working), video, testimonials etc. Whatever it takes.

I think there is way too much talk about 'being professional, qualified and insured'. It means jack to any and every customer with any sense. It means nowt. BS3998? Fully qualified? Think about it from the customer's point of view and think about what you look for when you buy a service or product. Are you looking for 'tickets' and insurance documents when you go out for a meal or get the roof fixed? You're probably looking for results. Give the customers evidence of results you can deliver. If a doctor started babbling on to you about how he's got all the right qualifications and how he's insured and how professional he is, would you be impressed? If another doctor showed you how she could make you well again in basic language a 5-year-old could understand would you be interested? Just a thought.

Nice one.

The boss of McDonalds UK was once asked if he got annoyed with everyone else copying their ideas. He said, " Not really, we just come up with new stuff faster than they can copy."

Sound advice. I think you should keep the back pad no higher than your belt line. I've been climbing in the oft-ridiculed Willans for years and not had any problems yet. If you wear the back pad Simon Cowell-style you're gonna get spine trouble. IMO a harness is not there to support your back, otherwise you'd wear it on the ground too - its there only to hold you in the tree.

Maybe lone workers in woodland should also be equipped with a tracker in case they get injured, lost and buried under falling leaves. BCA Tracker DTS from Facewest.co.uk

I'm no chipper mechanic, but on our Vermeer if the belts are too loose the stress control will not kick in soon enough. Maybe yours are too tight?

I agree with Dean too. It wasn't the fact that it wasn't in writing, it was that no price was agreed before the extras were done. That was the mistake, imo. Written quotes and emails when requested, but otherwise everyone we come across are sound as a pound!

I awant a make some sense but i judt gie bacvk from he pun: I think we have all beewn coopred p for too lonmg with the snoe ans all. Respect to hamadryad. Any one eldse goy any pics they wany to podt?

Diversification is not for me. Pruning and felling. That's it.

If you ever profile me, please send it pm first. No one gets Monkey D status in a hurry!

Paulsbrash, are you a psychological profiler?

hamadryad, I can see why some would say that's too much off, but the first picture was taken from a much closer position. The pictures make it look worse than it is. IMO you're on the maximum, as you say, and which is what was asked for; and after 6 months it'll look good I reckon. You know you should have done better to clarify what he really wanted - that's why you're annoyed with the job; but he'll love it by summertime. Maybe keep the photos handy to show the next customer who says they want loads off. They can then get a good idea of what it will look like.

It was 9% when vat was at 17.5%. Then when vat dropped to 15%, the Flat Rate dropped to 8%. Now vat has returned to 17.5% the F.R. has changed to 9.5%, apparantly. Bit crafty / clever - depending on your point of view.

My turnover went above it last year, but as it turned out so has the threshold which is now about 225K (VAT inclusive turnover). The change to 9.5%, from the previous 9% is crafty - after all we do to collect all that money, package it up into quarterley bundles and send it in to be wasted.

I prefer that example / analogy to the bonsai theory I mentioned earlier. Cheers. Some great posts in this thread. Putting the shrinkable clay / subsidence issue to one side for a second, it seems like we kind of know the answer, but it is very hard to generalise for tree size, tree species and come up with a solid answer that is useful for our customers.

Certainly is an impressive picture:

That`s Chapter 8 a. Not many people have done this course. It mainly involves parking the truck exactly where you`d have it in an ideal situation, dropping 4 little cones, and letting them work it out. Take advantage of any traffic island furniture to protect the dropzone. Do it when its snowing so all the cars are passing by nice and slow. I should have used a wider angle lens so you could have seen the traffic lights we had set up.