Making the news today....

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

1 hour ago, Mark J said:

Have a watch of this: 

 

 

 

Very ‘watchable’ Mark, I hold his views in very high regard. Must get on and read the book that was a Christmas present. 

 

Bankruptocracy....  liked that!

 

The single issue that stands to completely derail the theory of universal income, and without wanting to silo the conversation, whilst simultaneously wondering if his Left of centre position is the reason he COMLETELY avoided what was, to me, the hairy mamouth in the phone box, is immigration control.  He’s too smart to have ‘overlooked’ the issue which kind of devalues his output, so far as I’m concerned, and like I say, I am a genuine fan. 

 

For example, Country A has universal income, country B is a retarded economy with corrupt government and abject poverty....  Hows that gonna play out? 

 

Like he said, got to overcome preconceived ideas and not leave anything off the table, but then, by omission, he contradicts himself!

 

 

[difflock]

The best way of understanding the difficulty of providing generous State healthcare and benefits is illustrated by imagining 2 states sharing a land border with no restriction of movement.

Both states have the same natural resources and population size and density,

but, over time, for marginal reasons,

State "A" becomes more conservatively  run, with a lean administeration, moderate taxes and a not overgenerous health and social security system.

State "B", for whatever political causation, decides to pay more generous benefits, which inevitabily results in higher taxes.

Nett result;

the workers move to State "A" , which gets wealthier, lowers taxes, and becomes even more attractive for workers.

Whereas State "B" attracts the work-shy benefit seekers, loses tax revenue, and goes down the shitter, just  like Detroit.

Can anyone argue with the logic of this argument.

Such is the human condition.

And surely relative poverty is the  great driver, to seek a better life, through earned income, but not if Social Security chucks out more money in benefits, than can be earned locally.

Harsh, but many stable societies/communities exist on funds earned by the  breadwinners working away from home, or certainly the younger men working away from home.

I cannot see this changing in any healthy economic system, since any attempt at state control  must always results in bloated administeration and inefficiency.

regards

mth

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by difflock

[ABtrees]

OK I know its going back a few days but thought you guys might enjoy this clip (from the BBC !) - not sure this is the right thread but it seemed to include a bit of the Africa, Christianity, BBC and head for heights threads/debates all in one !  I enjoyed watching it anyway ! 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-africa-43079345/ethiopian-cliff-church-gives-priest-daily-test-of-faith

[Mark J]

19 hours ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

Very ‘watchable’ Mark, I hold his views in very high regard. Must get on and read the book that was a Christmas present. 

 

Bankruptocracy....  liked that!

 

The single issue that stands to completely derail the theory of universal income, and without wanting to silo the conversation, whilst simultaneously wondering if his Left of centre position is the reason he COMLETELY avoided what was, to me, the hairy mamouth in the phone box, is immigration control.  He’s too smart to have ‘overlooked’ the issue which kind of devalues his output, so far as I’m concerned, and like I say, I am a genuine fan. 

 

For example, Country A has universal income, country B is a retarded economy with corrupt government and abject poverty....  Hows that gonna play out? 

 

Like he said, got to overcome preconceived ideas and not leave anything off the table, but then, by omission, he contradicts himself!

 

 

If you can be bothered, there's a wealth of information on his thoughts, regarding immigration and finance online.  He may even cover it in that book you have.  I think the main point to take is that 'Universal' means exactly that.  I may be mistaken though.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

2 minutes ago, Mark J said:

If you can be bothered, there's a wealth of information on his thoughts, regarding immigration and finance online.  He may even cover it in that book you have.  I think the main point to take is that 'Universal' means exactly that.  I may be mistaken though.

Not so much being bothered, as having the time at the moment.

 

Are you suggesting that 'universal' means 'universal?'  

 

That would be to say EVERY country adopts an identical 'universal' system?  Anything other than that would create unacceptable (on many levels) pull & push factors which would be disastrous for all effected...

 

Let's not leave the obvious off the table in favour of promoting a system for systems sake.....

[Mark J]

I dunno,  You asked about Universal Basic Income.  I provided a link with a video with a speaker, who knows more about finance than most, who explains the concept quite well.  You then went in on an immigration angle.  I'm not suggesting anything other than you read what the esteemed gentleman has to say.  I'm no longer sure what you actually wanted to find out in the first place.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Mark J

[scotspine1]

Universal basic income might work in an economic basketcase like India but it'd never work in the modern economies of Western Europe or the States. 

[Mark J]

3 minutes ago, scotspine1 said:

Universal basic income might work in an economic basketcase like India but it'd never work in the modern economies of Western Europe or the States. 

Why's that then?

[Vespasian]

1 minute ago, scotspine1 said:

Universal income might work in an economic basketcase like India but it'd never work in the modern economies of Western Europe or the States. 

and you know that because?..

 

Seems to me that UI might be a winning idea..   I especially like it because I wouldn't turn my nose up at ten grand a year before I have to lift a finger..  

 

We can deal with the immigrants problem by encouraging less of it..  I don't know, we could "breed our own"...

[scotspine1]

17 minutes ago, Mark J said:

Why's that then?

You haven't thought about it much beyond hero worshipping Varoufakis have you?

 

It encourages mediocrity in the individual which adversely affects the economy because people stop believing in the transformational nature of work and high achievement, their goals are diminished by a universal state handout. 

 

It's interesting it's an idea also being pushed by the likes of Zuckerberg. 

 

They want people sitting at home doing nothing while the robots do the work. Ever heard the saying the devil makes work for idle hands. 

 

It'd cause massive civil unrest. 

 

You should read J.G. Ballard's Cocaine Nights: 

 

 "A billion balconies facing the sun; still, it means a final goodbye to wars and ideologies. But how do you energize people, give them some sense of community? A world lying on it's back is vulnerable to any cunning predator."