Making the news today....

[GarethM]

If Kevin wants to argue a specific point that's fine, but we'll be here until the end of days if you're wanting to dissect every bs statement from Monbiot.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

1 hour ago, coppice cutter said:

So there's a problem.

 

Do you have a solution or are you just going to sit in your ivory tower and blame 'the farmers' like everyone else does?

 

Personally, I haven't used chemical fertiliser for over 10 years, most of the land is now down to permanent pasture, and the only weeds I kill are the thistles which the sheep won't touch and I spot spray with a knapsack using approximately 200ml per year of a chemical which the EU banned from being used in a knapsack and would prefer I sprayed the entire field with killing everything other than than the grass itself.

 

I farm like this because I think it's the right way to farm, I've few financial responsibilities any more, and they can't threaten me with taking my farm payments away because I don't claim anything from the b@stards.

 

However, I'm not going to point the finger accusingly at anyone farming 'conventionally' because many of them are younger, have financial responsibilities, and what consumers, including yourself no doubt,  pay for their food simply would not sustain my farming practices to be scaled up across the land.

 

I wish it would change but all I ever see is gurning, griping, and sniping from people like yourself (and George f**king Monbiot!), and never see any positive input about how to change it.

 

Far too easy to accuse when you've no skin in the game.

 

*edit* - for clarification, I farm grade one arable lowland, not upland.

When you started with "...so here's the problem..." I actually thought there was going to be something substantial / meaningful to follow....

 

I don't have an ivory tower but I will look at the figures and draw my own conclusions - if there is blame to be apportioned it will lay where it lays.  

 

Look at the numbers - 70% of UK land in intensive agriculture, 56% species denudation.  You don't have to be Sir John Curtice to run the numbers.

 

If farmers are NOT responsible then who the f*ck is?

 

The next 2 points in your post we can agree on - 

 

The CAP (an EU directive) was completely ludicrous, misapplied, exploited, damaging, corrupt, ineffective, blah, blah, blah....  A very firm part of my anti EU stance BTW and hats off to you for chinning them off.

 

The next part is the uncomfortable truth - far from being the much vaunted NFU 'custodians of the countryside' and general all round good eggs in regard to the natural environment, the agricultural sector (on a macro level) is an exploitative, capitalist industrial process extracting and exploiting resource for personal profit.  Maybe that cute little red tractor would be better described in these terms?

 

It's odd to me that you perceive my input as gurning, griping, and sniping, what?  Am I not allowed an alternative POV?  You clearly understand that some of what I highlight is a real world problem because you recognise that some are driven by financial need (greed) and that you have turned your back on that system.  By your own example therefore the point I seek to present, rather than gurning, griping, and sniping, is actually proven by your own word and deed.

 

How do you assess that I have no skin in the game?

 

Let's not fall out over it, it seems to me we have more to agree about that you seem to want to disagree with....  😉 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GarethM]

Look at the numbers - 70% of UK land in intensive agriculture, 56% species denudation. You don't have to be Sir John Curtice to run the numbers.

 

Erm, wtf is that actually supposed to mean?. If it means that field of beans has zero other plants to steal it's nutrients, erm yes.

[openspaceman]

27 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

 

If farmers are NOT responsible then who the f*ck is?

All of us that benefited from the science and technology that has developed in the last 100 years

27 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

 

 

 

, the agricultural sector (on a macro level) is an exploitative, capitalist industrial process extracting and exploiting resource for personal profit.

That is the function of business in a capitalist society, not that I agree with it it is just the way it is

 

 

Happy new year you true blue but  pinko socialist 🙂

[GarethM]

Thought the term was watermelons, green on the outside and red on the inside.

 

I would be interested in knowing the global impact of not sorting out the Aral sea. Sod UK agriculture being the problem when a litteral inland ocean is gone.

Edited December 29, 2022 by GarethM

[coppice cutter]

31 minutes ago, kevinjohnsonmbe said:

Let's not fall out over it, it seems to me we have more to agree about that you seem to want to disagree with....  😉 

 

It was you who set the tone, an unconventional farmer I may now be, but I'm still a farmer.

 

Therefore, you attack farmers as a collective, you attack me.

 

Yes indeed the farming industry "is an exploitative, capitalist industrial process extracting and exploiting resource for personal profit", but the average farmer is no more responsible for this than the Amazon delivery driver is for their dodgy tax avoidance, or the Tesco/Sainsburys/Waitrose/Morrisons shelf stacker is for their consumer manipulation, or the McDonalds/Burger King burger flipper is for the poor health of a nation poisoned by junk food. Yet they don't get the blame, indeed they more often get sympathy for having no choice but to go with the flow. The average farmer is in the same position, yes some earn more and have more toys to play with, but the situation is the same, you have dependants and nobody is going to thank you for being a homeless, bankrupt, maverick.

 

OK, so I broke the mould but I'm thick, pig-headed, and had personal reasons for going off on my tangent, but I'm also fully aware that without huge changes at all levels of the food industry it is not scaleable.

 

As for "Red Tractor", most farmers detest it, as it is a pen-pushers job creation scheme with no appreciable benefit to anyone other than those administering the scheme itself.

 

I assume you've no skin in the game because if you did you'd have a greater understanding of the actual "game" than you appear to have.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

24 minutes ago, coppice cutter said:

It was you who set the tone, an unconventional farmer I may now be, but I'm still a farmer.

 

Therefore, you attack farmers as a collective, you attack me.

 

Yes indeed the farming industry "is an exploitative, capitalist industrial process extracting and exploiting resource for personal profit", but the average farmer is no more responsible for this than the Amazon delivery driver is for their dodgy tax avoidance, or the Tesco/Sainsburys/Waitrose/Morrisons shelf stacker is for their consumer manipulation, or the McDonalds/Burger King burger flipper is for the poor health of a nation poisoned by junk food. Yet they don't get the blame, indeed they more often get sympathy for having no choice but to go with the flow. The average farmer is in the same position, yes some earn more and have more toys to play with, but the situation is the same, you have dependants and nobody is going to thank you for being a homeless, bankrupt, maverick.

 

OK, so I broke the mould but I'm thick, pig-headed, and had personal reasons for going off on my tangent, but I'm also fully aware that without huge changes at all levels of the food industry it is not scaleable.

 

As for "Red Tractor", most farmers detest it, as it is a pen-pushers job creation scheme with no appreciable benefit to anyone other than those administering the scheme itself.

 

I assume you've no skin in the game because if you did you'd have a greater understanding of the actual "game" than you appear to have.

OK, right-o. 
 

you recognise how crap CAP is / was, so much so that you voluntarily chinned it off, but my lack of understanding is the problem….

 

Right-o. I’ll draw a line under it there….

[Johnsond]

China’s Covid nightmare is the final proof: lockdowns were a total failure

WWW.TELEGRAPH.CO.UK

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Sweden’s refusal to impose compulsory shutdowns has now, by contrast, been completely...

😞An excellent and very honest article. So true and yet sad because in reality it’s a bloody catastrophe that could have been easily avoided, in particular the closing of schools at the behest of the unions.  At least the author has the strength of character to admit he was wrong himself. Those responsible should hang their heads in shame. Those who bought into it should be demanding answers from the aforementioned and apologising wholeheartedly to anyone who was vilified, abused and even unbelievably convicted and fined during the whole sorry show. 
The word Moonbat is probably more applicable to those whom were duped rather than those who used a bit of the old grey matter and simply threw in some critical thinking along the way rather than believe every line of shit they were fed.  

Edited December 29, 2022 by Johnsond

[trigger_andy]

20 hours ago, eggsarascal said:

Ever the optimist, trig.

 

Ok Eggs I’ll bite. I’ve no idea how you’ve attributed this nonsensical comment to what I’d stereotypically post. 

[Johnsond]

On 28/12/2022 at 20:35, scbk said:

 

After he fell from his hotel room window, Indian police have been asked if the Kremlin was involved in the death of Russian "Sausage Tycoon" Pavel Antov.

 

The superintendent responded "All we can say is, we haven't found any links"

Sudden Russian Death Syndrome

APPLE.NEWS

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It’s not a great time to be an oligarch who’s unenthusiastic about Putin’s war in Ukraine.

Everything’s got a name nowadays 😳