Making the news today....

[dan494]

I really don't think there is 'islamification.' going on. No one I know is about to give up their cultural identity. There's a sizable difference between racism and dialogue. That's the point I was failing to make.

 

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I'm not saying you're wrong, I don't buy that there's much 'islamification' going on but perhaps people viewpoint is altered by their location? According to your profile you're near Newcastle? I've just had a look and the Muslim population there is 6%. In Manchester it's 16%. In Luton, my nearest big town it's 25% and believe me there are areas you'd feel very uncomfortable spending time in...

 

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[skyhuck]

Maybe lounge threads could have an expiry date, maybe after 5 days they could get locked?

Edited May 27, 2017 by skyhuck

[the village idiot]

I really don't think there is 'islamification.' going on. No one I know is about to give up their cultural identity. There's a sizable difference between racism and dialogue. That's the point I was failing to make.

 

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There is absolutely no doubt that the terrorists want to 'Islamify' Britain and the world. They are constantly telling us this, it's no secret.

 

We have two options. Either we kill everyone who is trying to do this, and everyone who might try to do this in the future, or the human race gets them to change their minds.

 

The first option is impossible. The second option is almost impossible and it necessitates that they reject the central core of their religion.

 

There is hope as many Muslims, once they have better things to think about, lose interest in the concepts of Jihad and Martyrdom. We need to help them develop their thinking.

 

Anyone who thinks it is wrong of me to label Jihad and Martyrdom as outrageously bad ideas is surely dangerously deluded.

[matelot]

Maybe lounge threads could have and expiry date, maybe after 5 days they could get locked.

 

The "in desperate times" thread is over 5 years old. You really want it locked?

[Rough Hewn]

My thoughts:

If this was a thread for professionals about trees, I'd leave.

But it's not.

We live in a country where our ancestors have fought and died in the millions, so we can live without fear of oppression, for freedom of speech and expression.

I don't agree with several opinions on here. Some I find incredible to believe.

But they are only opinions.

We are all adults and should have the emotional maturity to accept and tolerate others. Even matelot! [emoji106]

Incitement to murder is different. It's illegal.

Nothing on this thread is extreme.

I find this debate very interesting and informative.

My gratitude to all who have posted.

 

 

 

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[Daniël Bos]

The freedom of speech bit doesn't really apply here though does it?

 

Arbtalk is a privately owned forum, and when signing up we agreed to abide by the rules and the absolute authority of the owner or any person the owner chooses to share the power and responsibility to rule.

So freedom of speech is limited to what the owner/mods believe to be acceptable and that is not just as simple as legal=ok, illegal=not.

[RichieR]

There is absolutely no doubt that the terrorists want to 'Islamify' Britain and the world. They are constantly telling us this, it's no secret.

 

We have two options. Either we kill everyone who is trying to do this, and everyone who might try to do this in the future, or the human race gets them to change their minds.

 

The first option is impossible. The second option is almost impossible and it necessitates that they reject the central core of their religion.

 

There is hope as many Muslims, once they have better things to think about, lose interest in the concepts of Jihad and Martyrdom. We need to help them develop their thinking.

 

Anyone who thinks it is wrong of me to label Jihad and Martyrdom as outrageously bad ideas is surely dangerously deluded.

 

Evening VI

 

Isis or before them AQ are carrying out their actions and then trying to twist the Koran to suit their actions after the event.

Jihad can only be called upon by a highly influential religious leader and no religous leader has ever sanctioned the actions of either AQ or Isis. The second point is the Koran clearly states to die in martyrdom the person must not take his life. He may carry out actions that will lead to his death but that death cannot be by his own doing and at a time he has chosen.

For those that choose to therefore take their own life there is sadly no hoards of virgins awaiting them in paradise. In fact quite the opposite is awaiting their arrival

[skyhuck]

Evening VI

 

Isis or before them AQ are carrying out their actions and then trying to twist the Koran to suit their actions after the event.

Jihad can only be called upon by a highly influential religious leader and no religous leader has ever sanctioned the actions of either AQ or Isis. The second point is the Koran clearly states to die in martyrdom the person must not take his life. He may carry out actions that will lead to his death but that death cannot be by his own doing and at a time he has chosen.

For those that choose to therefore take their own life there is sadly no hoards of virgins awaiting them in paradise. In fact quite the opposite is awaiting their arrival

 

Also the word "virgin" is a miss translation, the koran actually says 72 figs, which were a highly prised sweet food at the time of writing, these guys really are clowns.

[RichieR]

Also the word "virgin" is a miss translation, the koran actually says 72 figs, which were a highly prised sweet food at the time of writing, these guys really are clowns.

 

Yep Skyhuck or maybe they are a bit kinky with a fig you never know

[the village idiot]

Evening VI

 

Isis or before them AQ are carrying out their actions and then trying to twist the Koran to suit their actions after the event.

Jihad can only be called upon by a highly influential religious leader and no religous leader has ever sanctioned the actions of either AQ or Isis. The second point is the Koran clearly states to die in martyrdom the person must not take his life. He may carry out actions that will lead to his death but that death cannot be by his own doing and at a time he has chosen.

For those that choose to therefore take their own life there is sadly no hoards of virgins awaiting them in paradise. In fact quite the opposite is awaiting their arrival

 

Evening Richie.

 

From what I can ascertain, suicide is indeed against the teachings of Islam, martyrdom is not. They don't see blowing themselves up as suicide (suicide bomber is a term invented by the west). They see it as dying in a glorious religious battle defending the faith.

 

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

 

Whether or not Jihad needs to be commanded by a high authority seems to be a pretty moot point.