Making the news today....

[openspaceman]

47 minutes ago, Khriss said:

1 hour ago, openspaceman said:

As no one under 50 will have the vaccination unless they have extra risk factors I doubt 80% will ever be vaccinated. Anyway with 5% of the population having had the disease there is no need to vaccinate them, or is there? I still cannot fathom how a vaccine can prime the immune system any better than surviving a full fat virus.

 

Herd immunity only drives the R value down, it doesn't offer any benefit to someone naive to the virus.

 

Speaking as one who the bald statistics indicate would be 90 times more likely to die than if I were half my age.

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Because of viral mutation - like the flu jab changes periodically , looks like it could be a yearly thing  ;/  K

That doesn't change the point in any way; yes the virus will mutate and yes people will catch the mutated version,  their immune system will then not be naive to the virus and it's various surface proteins so if a future infection contains any of those strings of proteins they will be recognised and the immune system will go into action against the virus. Similarly  as long as the jab  has "educated" the immune system of the right sequence of proteins that uniquely define the virus then when the virus enters the body the immune system is fore armed with knowledge of these proteins and can attack the virus.

 

My point was why should a jab offer better protection than having had and recovered from the virus.

 

I had my first ever flu jab this year, some 10 years after it was offered. I had never bothered before because I have never knowingly had the flu but suspected the combined effect of covid and the flu may not be good for me.

 

Of course if these various tiers and lockdowns work any infectious or contagious disease should be reduced but as I am an asocial being probably high on the autistic spectrum,  my lifestyle isn't largely affected apart from not going to supermarkets (I get anxious in queues and have to make multiple passes of aisles in trying to find what is on my shopping list so likely to upset other shoppers) so I have groceries delivered or use the local shop where I tend to be the only customer and the higher price, less choice, doesn't faze me.

 

 

[Big J]

56 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

Yesterday’s numbers for Uk deaths I think stood at 445 approx, for a change they put in the fact that only 11 of those had no serious known existing health conditions confirming yet again that for the vast amount of people this is not the death sentence MSM would have you believe.  There seems to be an enthusiasm from politicians and scientists to head for yet another full on ineffective socially and economically destructive lockdown regardless of how dismally they have failed previously. Record cases of a flu like virus are as you say not a new winter phenomenon. 

 

It does put it into perspective somewhat.

 

Whilst I fully appreciate that this newer strain is much more transmissible, if only 2.5% of people succumbing to it (extrapolated from those daily figures) have no preexisting health conditions, why lock down an entire country? 

 

• If you're over 70, regard yourself as being in lockdown/tier 4 until you've received the vaccine
• If you have preexisting health conditions leading to a higher risk of death with covid, same as for the over 70s.
• If you're overweight, seriously limit social contact until your weight is within the normal range and you are fit. This cannot be considered as the same as people over 70 or with serious preexisting conditions, as 95% of adults with serious weight issues really only have themselves to blame for their size. 

I also appreciate that long covid is a consideration, but how does it compare from recovering from serious flu? The twice I've had flu in my life completely floored me for a week, and took over a month to get back to full strength afterwards. 

 

Perhaps a good use of government funds in the face of this pandemic is to spend less on funding people to stay home and more on say, buying them a treadmill/indoor bike/rowing machine? Much like a car, when properly serviced and cared for, there are far fewer breakdowns.

[Khriss]

Couple our friends got Long covid and been floored fr 6 months, fit n runners too, not old. K

 

( course, one is bit of a whiner so could be swinging it  🙄) 

[David Cropper]

2 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

It does put it into perspective somewhat.

 

Whilst I fully appreciate that this newer strain is much more transmissible, if only 2.5% of people succumbing to it (extrapolated from those daily figures) have no preexisting health conditions, why lock down an entire country? 

 

• If you're over 70, regard yourself as being in lockdown/tier 4 until you've received the vaccine
• If you have preexisting health conditions leading to a higher risk of death with covid, same as for the over 70s.
• If you're overweight, seriously limit social contact until your weight is within the normal range and you are fit. This cannot be considered as the same as people over 70 or with serious preexisting conditions, as 95% of adults with serious weight issues really only have themselves to blame for their size. 

I also appreciate that long covid is a consideration, but how does it compare from recovering from serious flu? The twice I've had flu in my life completely floored me for a week, and took over a month to get back to full strength afterwards. 

 

Perhaps a good use of government funds in the face of this pandemic is to spend less on funding people to stay home and more on say, buying them a treadmill/indoor bike/rowing machine? Much like a car, when properly serviced and cared for, there are far fewer breakdowns.

My wife is still having breathing problems after recovering in March. As to being overweight,  not a bit, she's 8st 2lbs,  5 foot tall, never smoked and until she got the virus end of February very fit for her age, 68. Always went to keep fit every week, walked all the time and generally was in good shape. Now she can't even manage a decent walk with the dog without suffering shortage of breath. She's had two tests within the last 5 weeks, both negative, back to the doctor tomorrow. She's got an appointment with a cardiologist in February,  a wait of 3 months since she was taken in to our local A&E on Rememberance day with breathing difficulties and blood pressure through the roof. Let's face it, no one knows with any certainty what this disease is doing to the body. Whether she will be eligible for the jab, we don't know. In theory if you have had the virus you don't need it. Have to wait and see.

[gary112]

A friend of mine died of covid and his son got it straight after,mid May,he is still suffering with breathing issues now and feeling generally unwell,he is young was extremely fit non smoker and non drinker and still off work

[Johnsond]

I keep hearing these examples on this Forum of this fit one and that healthy one who had it and are still floored by it etc etc , whilst I’m not deriding people’s own experience   or saying this is not the case this is most certainly not my experience or the experience of those who have had it that I know. There are some on here claiming to know literally  dozens of people whom have had the virus and it’s invariably a horror story. Big J quotes confirmed statistics. The  symptomatic people I know young and old described either very little or moderate to bad Flu like symptoms 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️I’m no Doctor or expert but this rollercoaster of lockdowns is helping no one in any way shape or form. 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Johnsond

[David Cropper]

2 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

I keep hearing these examples on this Forum of this fit one and that healthy one who had it and are still floored by it etc etc , whilst I’m not deriding people’s own experience   or saying this is not the case this is most certainly not my experience or the experience of those who have had it that I know. There are some on here claiming to know literally  dozens of people whom have had the virus and it’s invariably a horror story. Big J quotes confirmed statistics. The  symptomatic people I know young and old described either very little or moderate to bad Flu like symptoms 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️I’m no Doctor or expert but this rollercoaster of lockdowns is helping no one in any way shape or form. 

I'm terribly sorry if this is boring you! I'll tell my wife you think she's just another statistic.  Who the f... do you think you are? 

[gary112]

11 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

I keep hearing these examples on this Forum of this fit one and that healthy one who had it and are still floored by it etc etc , whilst I’m not deriding people’s own experience   or saying this is not the case this is most certainly not my experience or the experience of those who have had it that I know. There are some on here claiming to know literally  dozens of people whom have had the virus and it’s invariably a horror story. Big J quotes confirmed statistics. The  symptomatic people I know young and old described either very little or moderate to bad Flu like symptoms 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️I’m no Doctor or expert but this rollercoaster of lockdowns is helping no one in any way shape or form. 

Lucky for you then that no one close to you has died or been very ill from it,sister in law and niece both work on covid wards,people dying and fighting for there life from it,but hay ho 

[nepia]

Of the long Covid cases of which I'm aware (italics as of course I am only aware of those cases reported or known to me personally) a worringly high number seem to be young or middle aged folk and in good or excellent health; the woman Olympic rower who couldn't even run 7 months after having the bug or how about that poor Welshman on the tele the other week?  35 years old I think, will need dialysis for life if he can't get a kidney transplant, has lost the sight of one eye and had two and a half fingers amputated.

That's not flu.

 

Btw I'm not about to dive into this long debate - I'm just commenting on the one issue of long Covid.

[Johnsond]

29 minutes ago, David Cropper said:

I'm terribly sorry if this is boring you! I'll tell my wife you think she's just another statistic.  Who the f... do you think you are? 

Listen bud not once did I use obscenities or say that anyone was lying or indeed a statistic or mention the word boring , you’ve added bells and whistles to that big time . I’d hazard a guess and say you’d likely not speak to people in such a manner if they were stood in front of you. 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Johnsond