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[Johnsond]

2 hours ago, David Cropper said:

At least you're honest about your lack of knowledge and want to know more about it. Don't expect to just have your questions answered with a "debate", not on here! You seem to be able to hold your own. Good for you. 

?‍♂️?‍♂️All the information he apparently requires is easily available in great detail online. To have shot full and small bore and other disciplines inc air rifles yet to have no knowledge of any of the number of tragic events leading to changes in the firearms legislation is unusual to say the least. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Johnsond

[Johnsond]

3 hours ago, Youngstu said:

Lack of base knowledge on the topic, that's me, hence the questions. Also not knowing what your preferred shooting disciplines are lead me to my post. I used to do full bore and small bore target shooting when I was a kid, fired off clays as a Sunday job a long time ago and have a cheap air rifle for keeping the rats in the chicken run under control. Other than the air rifle I probably haven't fired a gun for 25 years. I'm obviously aware that there were times when new legislation was imposed in response to serious incidents when at the time legal firearms were used. 

What kinds of firearms did you used to enjoy using, that you can no longer own or use?  and is there no legal alternative that still enables similar sporting enjoyment without the same real or perceived risks if they fell into the wrong hands? 

As I said I have no issue with the use of firearms for hunting or other sport, but my general level of ignorance on the subject, combined with an interest in hearing different points of view has lead me to these questions, as opposed to looking for a debate on it. 

??? All very very  PC actually way too much for me. Perceived  risks !! Legal alternatives !! Enjoyment  !! Wrong hands !!, serious incidents with legally held firearms!!. All well used lines. 
What I shot or shoot is irrelevant and most sensible responsible shooters will not broadcast online their activities. You can if you need to and actually I do not believe in reality you are as naive to UK firearms laws as you say, find out all about UK firearms legislation online in no time at all. What you won’t find so easily is the facts behind each case and the failings of existing legislation at the time. Water under the bridge now unfortunately. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Johnsond

[Youngstu]

1 hour ago, Johnsond said:

??? All very very  PC actually way too much for me. Perceived  risks !! Legal alternatives !! Enjoyment  !! Wrong hands !!, serious incidents with legally held firearms!!. All well used lines. 
What I shot or shoot is irrelevant and most sensible responsible shooters will not broadcast online their activities. You can if you need to and actually I do not believe in reality you are as naive to UK firearms laws as you say, find out all about UK firearms legislation online in no time at all. What you won’t find so easily is the facts behind each case and the failings of existing legislation at the time. Water under the bridge now unfortunately. 

I don't think I said at any point that I had no knowledge of the tragic events leading to tighter restrictions on firearms but my knowledge of those restrictions beyond not being allowed to have automatic weapons, having to have firearm licences and having to keep firearms in appropriate cabinets was pretty limited. All of my previous shooting was done through cadets a long time ago so my involvement with anything involving paperwork was very limited, and I didn't have to produce my birth certificate when I bought the second cheapest air rifle in the local agricultural store!! 

I had no idea that pretty much all handguns were illegal, I had just assumed that specialist target weapons were still permitted. 

As opposed to being excessively PC I was just trying to gain a bit more understanding of the issues that you and others have with the restrictions and what could be to come without appearing to have preconceived judgements on the issues. Like I said I have no issues with their use for sport, hunting or pest control, but it's not something that I do or have ever bothered looking into. 

[Johnsond]

47 minutes ago, Youngstu said:

I don't think I said at any point that I had no knowledge of the tragic events leading to tighter restrictions on firearms but my knowledge of those restrictions beyond not being allowed to have automatic weapons, having to have firearm licences and having to keep firearms in appropriate cabinets was pretty limited. All of my previous shooting was done through cadets a long time ago so my involvement with anything involving paperwork was very limited, and I didn't have to produce my birth certificate when I bought the second cheapest air rifle in the local agricultural store!! 

I had no idea that pretty much all handguns were illegal, I had just assumed that specialist target weapons were still permitted. 

As opposed to being excessively PC I was just trying to gain a bit more understanding of the issues that you and others have with the restrictions and what could be to come without appearing to have preconceived judgements on the issues. Like I said I have no issues with their use for sport, hunting or pest control, but it's not something that I do or have ever bothered looking into. 

You didn’t know pistols were illegal in the UK?? 
Shooters in the UK have never been allowed automatic weapons, pre Hungerford SEMI auto full bore were legal for certain competitive disciplines. 

[daveatdave]

6 hours ago, Jamespepperpot said:

I think the problem with the UK and its relationship with hunting is that its always been associated with the upper classes and something thats not available to everyone. I don't think the general public are entirely against things like deer stalking which put food on the table and from most of the conversations I've had with people they are easily convinced that its a perfectly acceptable thing to do if you're planning to eat it.

The idea that the shooting community stick together and be wary of things like fox hunting getting banned is a little bizarre. It doesn't relate to real hunting in the slightest. If we want to carry on being able to own firearms and go hunting the community needs to realise that the general public need to see the positive side to these things. The problem with fox hunting and pheasant shooting is that it puts the whole of 'hunting' in a bad light so clinging on to these isn't doing us any favours.

James you do not know the anti hunt lot if hound hunting goes all shooting and fishing is on there agender next and they will hammer it just like they are doing with the hounds now and they will not know what has hit them 

[Jamespepperpot]

7 hours ago, daveatdave said:

James you do not know the anti hunt lot if hound hunting goes all shooting and fishing is on there agender next and they will hammer it just like they are doing with the hounds now and they will not know what has hit them 

I dont agree, that's just the typical fieldsports britain/BASC mentality. There are enormous amounts of scientific backing and ecological reasons why deer are managed in the UK. Its something that's never been so important, especially in the south east.

Hound hunting has no backing or real purpose, its just a weird charade. The majority of non hunting types I've had discussions with understand the need to manage deer and foxes. They just don't like the pomp and nonsense that comes with certain types of fieldsports.

[Johnsond]

19 minutes ago, Jamespepperpot said:

I dont agree, that's just the typical fieldsports britain/BASC mentality. There are enormous amounts of scientific backing and ecological reasons why deer are managed in the UK. Its something that's never been so important, especially in the south east.

Hound hunting has no backing or real purpose, its just a weird charade. The majority of non hunting types I've had discussions with understand the need to manage deer and foxes. They just don't like the pomp and nonsense that comes with certain types of fieldsports.

Non hunting and anti hunting there is a huge huge difference !!. 
Anti hunt groups have made it clear it’s one thing at a time, start with the easy targets and work up to the likes of fishing. 

[Youngstu]

8 hours ago, Johnsond said:

You didn’t know pistols were illegal in the UK?? 
Shooters in the UK have never been allowed automatic weapons, pre Hungerford SEMI auto full bore were legal for certain competitive disciplines. 

I knew that standard pistols were illegal but had wrongly assumed that this didn't apply to specific target shooting models as I thought these were still used in competitive sports, but I suppose what I thought I'd seen must have all been air powered.  I guess that this was deemed necessary at the time as there would always be people arguing the toss over whether or not something fitted into a certain category. 

[eggsarascal]

Where the hunts fall down is the blocking of bolt holes, and terrier lads digging on earths to get foxes "up". In my eyes a fox should get the chance to go to ground.

 

 

[difflock]

Come and live in NI, and at least you can still own and shoot pistols, if not full bore semi auto rifles.