Making the news today....

[Steven P]

3 hours ago, trigger_andy said:

Try telling that to all the kids that killed themselves over Covid restrictions. Oh yes, you cant.

 

Likewise the adults... point is that I don't think we can single out children as particularly vulnerable, all of society was affected about equally.

 

As for how effective the lockdowns were, that can be subjective, Comparing like for like is tricky, for example Sweden over the summer is traditional for them to go to the countryside houses - the population spreads out more than other European countries, Japan are health conscious anyway and will wear masks out and about by routine - comparing like for like is tricky but the point of them worked to slow down us all getting it, allowing more space in hospitals for the seriously ill and allowing time for a vaccine to be developed. Very much a different thing whether you liked it or not or liked being told to restrict what you do by the government (almost all the governments f the world did the same... so a uniform scientific thought that that was the way to fo)

[trigger_andy]

Just now, Steven P said:

Likewise the adults... point is that I don't think we can single out children as particularly vulnerable, all of society was affected about equally.

The young, particularly children at this age are vulnerable, there is laws in place to protect them because of this vulnerability. Kids being kids need to get out and see their friends and explore. To lock them in their houses for months at a time and subject them to what is tantamount to abuse with covid restrictions and masks etc and even coercing them to take needless experimental injections was disgusting. Of course they have been affected far more than adults when at that age they need nurtured and cared for. They are far more inexperienced in life than adults and to subject them to everything that was covid and its knee jerk reactions when they are not mentally prepared for it is the main reason they felt a far heavier burden that adults. 

[Steven P]

It is probably something we aren't going to agree fully on, and like a lot of stuff isn't clear cut, black and white "Keep the kids at home" (or any of us), but the other choice might have been to watch a load of their parents die (OK I am being extreme here).

 

Within the rules of the time there was still plenty of scope to get out and about as a family and explore - just not with their friends.

 

Can't deny that the mental stuff was tough.... but equally tough for all ages.

 

One last thought I have on world wide issues is "What did the Russians do", a big country with perhaps being the least influenced by US money, and a complete nutter in charge, who also had lockdowns.... so whatever hindsight tells us, the scientists worldwide were saying the same thing.

 

But... not sure we will agree on this one

[trigger_andy]

1 minute ago, Steven P said:

It is probably something we aren't going to agree fully on, and like a lot of stuff isn't clear cut, black and white "Keep the kids at home" (or any of us), but the other choice might have been to watch a load of their parents die (OK I am being extreme here).

 

Within the rules of the time there was still plenty of scope to get out and about as a family and explore - just not with their friends.

 

Can't deny that the mental stuff was tough.... but equally tough for all ages.

 

One last thought I have on world wide issues is "What did the Russians do", a big country with perhaps being the least influenced by US money, and a complete nutter in charge, who also had lockdowns.... so whatever hindsight tells us, the scientists worldwide were saying the same thing.

 

But... not sure we will agree on this one

No, we'll never agree that a fully developed adult both physically and mentally had it just as bad as an immature child during lock down. 

 

Personally I spent around or just over 200 days in isolation during Covid due to my job. By the end it was very detrimental to my mental health. Yet having personally experienced that I can still say with personal experienced that is was far worse for the children and youths. They are not nearly mentally or physically developed to deal with such extremes for such an extended period of time. 

[Johnsond]

4 hours ago, Steven P said:

 

Likewise the adults... point is that I don't think we can single out children as particularly vulnerable, all of society was affected about equally.

 

As for how effective the lockdowns were, that can be subjective, Comparing like for like is tricky, for example Sweden over the summer is traditional for them to go to the countryside houses - the population spreads out more than other European countries, Japan are health conscious anyway and will wear masks out and about by routine - comparing like for like is tricky but the point of them worked to slow down us all getting it, allowing more space in hospitals for the seriously ill and allowing time for a vaccine to be developed. Very much a different thing whether you liked it or not or liked being told to restrict what you do by the government (almost all the governments f the world did the same... so a uniform scientific thought that that was the way to fo)

14 million children in the UK silenced by the Covid-19 Inquiry

WWW.SAVETHECHILDREN.ORG.UK

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More than 40 of the UK’s leading children’s charities and child development experts have urged...

Your theory about everyone living in the countryside in Sweden or heading off to their weekend retreats has been thoroughly debunked on here numerous times including by individuals who reside there. Multiple children’s charities and organisations have come forward with ample evidence regarding the damage done by lockdowns. The whole lockdown and restrictions theories were built upon massively flawed assumptions and modelling by self promoting individuals who ignored the restrictions themselves (which sort of gives you a massive clue as to how worried they actually were). It was far from a uniform scientific thought as you claim , those scientists who disagreed were utterly vilified regardless of the qualifications or experience they possessed. There can absolutely never be any justification for the madness and stupidity never mind sheer cruelty we witnessed during that period. I could add multiple links or pictures that would seem to suggest children are maybe not at resilient as you think. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Johnsond

[Steven P]

I reckon if you asked the same question regarding adult you will probably get the same answer that the Covid lockdowns also had an effect on adults too, not something we disagree about.

 

To my original point about the resilience of Children, I'll stand by what I think that they are more robust than you give them credit for. Unfortunately for the sake of this part of this discussion we won't know exactly how much so until they become parents and raise their own children in accordance with their own childhood experiences (other half is a child psychologist, explains these things to me in too much detail).

 

For r the rest of the world, their scientists were giving the same advice and despite all the other pressures (finances, mental health, society changing) all but about 10 countries in the world did the same thing - so there must have been something in it. government often has details that we don't. In other countries a lot of their leaders followed the rules that were set, we had a leader who has never followed rules.

 

As you say though, this has been gone through many times before here and on other forums and it is a polarising subject, very little middle ground, and as I suggest above the real long term effects won't be known for many years.

[Mark J]

 

[Johnsond]

20 minutes ago, Steven P said:

I reckon if you asked the same question regarding adult you will probably get the same answer that the Covid lockdowns also had an effect on adults too, not something we disagree about.

 

To my original point about the resilience of Children, I'll stand by what I think that they are more robust than you give them credit for. Unfortunately for the sake of this part of this discussion we won't know exactly how much so until they become parents and raise their own children in accordance with their own childhood experiences (other half is a child psychologist, explains these things to me in too much detail).

 

For r the rest of the world, their scientists were giving the same advice and despite all the other pressures (finances, mental health, society changing) all but about 10 countries in the world did the same thing - so there must have been something in it. government often has details that we don't. In other countries a lot of their leaders followed the rules that were set, we had a leader who has never followed rules.

 

As you say though, this has been gone through many times before here and on other forums and it is a polarising subject, very little middle ground, and as I suggest above the real long term effects won't be known for many years.

I’d say the effects are plain to see and are right in front of you right here right now  if you choose to look. Why must there be something in it  because the majority went along with it ??. That’s like saying Hitler  must have been onto something 🤷‍♂️. I know from the first hand experience of watching what it did to my youngest of 6  kids “ twins” without needing a child psychologist to try and explain it. It’s called being a parent. 
So you really believe the government had some secret information regarding the lethality of covid that they didn’t share !!!. Politicians from every party and scientists in positions of influence ignored the rules because they knew they were utterly absurd. 

[sime42]

[Steven P]

Ahhh, the Hitler argument.......