back strap cut, whats the point?

[Jimbo 76]

Hey Spruce mate,

 

Good advice ... And I'm probably the opposite 90 percent hardwoods and relatively little soft woods. Knowing your trees is key...

 

Always happy to learn but how can you uses dogs tooth on back leaners? Don't understand with back tab at 45 degrees and opposite hinge.... ie not offset like a pie cut how you get your wedges in mate? Understand you can get either side but don't you need them directly behind to maximise lift?

 

Cheers

James

[Mark Bolam]

He has mis explained it mate.

I hope he has, like.

I wouldn't fancy releasing the holding strap on a back leaner.

[drinksloe]

I'm similar to Spruce never seen a barbers chair with soft woods even when leaning or heavy to 1 side, mibee too knotty in this country? As most of clips seem to be soft woods in usa.

 

Most of the barbers chairs i've seen/experienced were in medium sized hard woods 1-3ft ish butts and usually sycamore, willow or ash (but never cut much chestnut).

 

 

Depends the size of tree ur cutting (i've never thought about using it for a back leaner) but i usually put my wedges in at 10 and 2 rather than 12 and usually work 2 or more wedges. So in theory u could/would have space to cut/bore the holding piece out.

I'm guessing SP is generally feeling outsiders so will generally be decent sized timber usually 3+ft butts, so u should have room.

Must admit i just usually keep it simple and cut it so i can wedge it as i go

 

I would of thought if u've got a wedge in either side u'd be safe enough to cut the back hold without it trapping ur saw. But suppose it depends on tree/wieght/lean and how much of a back hold u left on it.

Be a pain if it pinched bar before u got it fully cut off as struggle to wedge the bar out if timber still holding.

Most soft wood cutters i know always carry a spare bar/chain in piece bag for when something like that happens, saves a lot of walking back for spare saws, u soon learn:001_smile:

[Spruce Pirate]

Yes, maybe I've not been ultra clear.

 

It's probably not truly a dog tooth cut I'm on about, but a bit of wood at the back to stop the tree sitting back, similar to a dog tooth. I'd use it on bigger trees, lets you cut round and set the hinge up without worrying about it sitting back and pinching the saw. Like Drinksloe says, with wedges in at 10 and 2 ish - you can get them well set in, or stick a jack in it if you want, then when you do sever the strap/holding wood (not necessarily at 45 degrees in this case), if you've got things well set up the tree will lift slightly and you know it's going to go. Also fair to say, as Drinksloe points out, that it's normally easier to keep things simple and just wedge as you go. On smaller trees I'd use a pie cut, I used to use split levels, but nowadays prefer the pie cut.

[Gbaz]

I am a complete amateur and I am curious as to why you sever the strap at 45 degrees rather than level?

[Brushcutter]

Yes, maybe I've not been ultra clear.

 

It's probably not truly a dog tooth cut I'm on about, but a bit of wood at the back to stop the tree sitting back, similar to a dog tooth. I'd use it on bigger trees, lets you cut round and set the hinge up without worrying about it sitting back and pinching the saw. Like Drinksloe says, with wedges in at 10 and 2 ish - you can get them well set in, or stick a jack in it if you want, then when you do sever the strap/holding wood (not necessarily at 45 degrees in this case), if you've got things well set up the tree will lift slightly and you know it's going to go. Also fair to say, as Drinksloe points out, that it's normally easier to keep things simple and just wedge as you go. On smaller trees I'd use a pie cut, I used to use split levels, but nowadays prefer the pie cut.

 

Do you cut the holding wood underneath like you would in a pie cut as that's what i do.

 

Out of interest why do you prefer the pie cut? I find you can throw the trees around a lot more with the split level.

[Spruce Pirate]

Do you cut the holding wood underneath like you would in a pie cut as that's what i do.

 

Out of interest why do you prefer the pie cut? I find you can throw the trees around a lot more with the split level.

 

Sometimes below, sometimes above, sometimes level. Depends on how I feel, how much I think it's going to take to get it to go over, etc. If it's going to take a lot to get it over I tend to cut level as it's one less thing to hold it back, essentially just finishing the cut. If using a winch or jack I'd tend to go below.

 

I never really got on with split level cuts, I just prefer the Danish pie, largely personal preference. With a bit of thought I think it's as if it's got a real lean on it you can also send a wedge right through the back as you've cut right through the tree behind the hinge, gives you more lift. You can also put a small wedge in on one side to hold it while having a bigger wedge on the other to drive right through. By the time you've driven the big wedge in a bit you can pull the smaller one out. Hope this makes sense. I've put over some small diameter trees this way with a hefty back lean and a bit of height, so never going to go over with just a bar. Need to keep a fairly decent hinge as if it's too thin it'll just pop off.

 

I am a complete amateur and I am curious as to why you sever the strap at 45 degrees rather than level?

 

This is for felling forward leaning trees, so the tree is going to want to go early. If you leave a strap at the back you hold the tree while setting the hinge, when you sever the strap you can do it in a number of ways: level above the cut or in the cut - the tree is likely to break the holding wood before you fully cut it and can take the saw with it or cause it to kick; level underneath the cut - the tree is again likely to break the holding wood before you've severed it fully, possibly causing the tree to split at the back. The cutting down at 45 degrees keeps the strength in the wood fibre, meaning the strap is less likely to snap or at least will hold on longer, the angle of the cut means that the saw is less likely to be taken with the tree.

 

That is the way that I understand it, but if anyone's got more knowledge I'll happily learn.

[oldwoodcutter]

The old cutters of years ago would seldom tackle a big ash in strong winds,especially at this time of year,and if there were houses or property close.They would leave it for another day after the wind dropped.

I happened to be in some forestry shelter belts earlier in the year, where final thinnings of beech were being hand cut by some young fellows. Some of the leaners and forked ones were quite large and i saw one of those barber chair.

He finished it off, then went and sat on a trunk and smoked a cigarette for a few minutes, contemplating mortality when i went over and spoke with him.

[SteveA]

The old cutters of years ago would seldom tackle a big ash in strong winds,especially at this time of year,and if there were houses or property close.They would leave it for another day after the wind dropped.

I happened to be in some forestry shelter belts earlier in the year, where final thinnings of beech were being hand cut by some young fellows. Some of the leaners and forked ones were quite large and i saw one of those barber chair.

He finished it off, then went and sat on a trunk and smoked a cigarette for a few minutes, contemplating mortality when i went over and spoke with him.

 

Haha! Sound advice.

cheers, steve

[Taupotreeman]

I'm similar to Spruce never seen a barbers chair with soft woods even when leaning or heavy to 1 side, mibee too knotty in this country? As most of clips seem to be soft woods in usa.

 

Most of the barbers chairs i've seen/experienced were in medium sized hard woods 1-3ft ish butts and usually sycamore, willow or ash (but never cut much chestnut).

 

 

Depends the size of tree ur cutting (i've never thought about using it for a back leaner) but i usually put my wedges in at 10 and 2 rather than 12 and usually work 2 or more wedges. So in theory u could/would have space to cut/bore the holding piece out.

I'm guessing SP is generally feeling outsiders so will generally be decent sized timber usually 3+ft butts, so u should have room.

Must admit i just usually keep it simple and cut it so i can wedge it as i go

 

I would of thought if u've got a wedge in either side u'd be safe enough to cut the back hold without it trapping ur saw. But suppose it depends on tree/wieght/lean and how much of a back hold u left on it.

Be a pain if it pinched bar before u got it fully cut off as struggle to wedge the bar out if timber still holding.

Most soft wood cutters i know always carry a spare bar/chain in piece bag for when something like that happens, saves a lot of walking back for spare saws, u soon learn:001_smile:

 

 

I was thinning out part of Charnwood Forest in the early 90's and a lot of the stuff we were taking out was Larch. It barber chaired regularly to the point where my employer had me stay at the base of the tree and cut through the hinge as the tree fell in order to protect the wood. Knowing what I know now I'd be felling using different methods but back then I was a fresh faced college grad and was just keen to earn some coin.