Extensive risk assesment

[cornish wood burner]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg382.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

Common sense is not common practice nor does it appear in any legislation.

 

It is common practice in my maintenance team. If no common sense they do not work for me for long. Life is too short to be working with someone who does not think. For example on a glasshouse roof gutter 110mm wide with a piece of glass 1679x1000 you need a person opposite you can trust. In common with tree work maintenance produces the unexpected.

[Safety Steve]

Aspenarb the question is do you know what is in your telephone book thick rams. The rams should be a document that can be utilised by the staff to reduce risk and describe how to undertake the works. A book that thick you ain't gonna use or at least not know the key points. Ut therefore defeats the object of a rams and is just a vanity product to satisfy an over zealous health and safety officer who is more worried about the company being sued rather than the protection of a workforce.

 

Ok - not gonna answer all the points raised otherwise its a tennis match rather than a serious conversation. My replies above are solely aimed at those people who have replied on this forum to demonstrate they don't take safety seriously and who seem to think my job is to prevent yours; wrong.

 

Take the comment above. Detritus presumes that it is my vanity (an insult in itself) that causes him unnecessary thought and to reply courteously and constructively to a clients request.

 

He then correctly assumes it is because I am worried about my client or company being sued. Unfortunately he doesn't think why I am being sued - ergo one of you guys being seriously injured, killed or inflicting pain or loss on someone else to whom I owe a duty of care.

 

I don't want volumes, I don't want photo copies of useless information, I don't want to put you out more than any other contractor or subcontractor I use. Your work is no different to other high risk professionals I might use - stop thinking you are a special case. What I do want is a professional approach.

 

Some seem to get this and post accordingly - you get my vote.

 

Unfortunately some don't get it at all - you get my kiss off.

 

And then there are the some's that say they get it but reveal themselves (through their posts and attitudes on here) that underneath its all a joke and if they can beat the system they will. These are the ones that get my wrath. These are the ones that give highly skilled professionals a bad name. These are the ones that give me the most concern as these are the ones that I have to clear up after.

 

If I think you fall in this camp, then you get 3rd degree. If you show me respect and listen to what I want rather than fight it, we can work together.

 

 

And finally (because I am being chased by SWMBO to do the garden) in response to 'what do I know'; I have very little personal experience of tree work. I don't need it because you have it. But I know a lot about my job and the attitude demonstrated by some on here is that you don't think I add value to your work. Your right, but then I don't work for you do I? What you have to understand is that before you came along I probably had a meeting with the CEO, an FM Director or other such person to discuss the work. My questions are related to making sure you are fit for the job I need doing, sure I'll take references and look at Chas - but be sure you'll get an interview and quizzing as well. Work with me and I'll even help you answer my questions.

 

Read the posts above in this light and perhaps you might see that I am actually on your side.

 

.... have I heard of competency cards.... I don't know your industry..... I read a h&s story in the Mail so it must be true...have a mate who once....

 

Like I said above - surely anyone can climb and chop trees? Give me some credit perleease!

[detritus21]

I wasn't saying rams are a vanity product what I was saying the ones that are as thick as a phonebook are as they do not fill the purpose of the risk assessment process

[aspenarb]

There are two versions of the rams . There is the one generated for the site Forman which is the full phone book version which is designed to make his eyes glaze over in less than sixty seconds which will prompt him to bung it in the filing cabinet where it's fit for purpose . The lads get the basic working version which include nearest A&E and a few contact numbers on it. You will never beat the system so you may as well join in. As said before this is not the governments doing its the in house H&S bull individual companies devise to appease insurers and their legal teams. HSE by and large only point us in the right direction which is for our benefit.

 

Bob

[gensetsteve]

Ok - not gonna answer all the points raised otherwise its a tennis match rather than a serious conversation. My replies above are solely aimed at those people who have replied on this forum to demonstrate they don't take safety seriously and who seem to think my job is to prevent yours; wrong.

 

Take the comment above. Detritus presumes that it is my vanity (an insult in itself) that causes him unnecessary thought and to reply courteously and constructively to a clients request.

 

He then correctly assumes it is because I am worried about my client or company being sued. Unfortunately he doesn't think why I am being sued - ergo one of you guys being seriously injured, killed or inflicting pain or loss on someone else to whom I owe a duty of care.

 

I don't want volumes, I don't want photo copies of useless information, I don't want to put you out more than any other contractor or subcontractor I use. Your work is no different to other high risk professionals I might use - stop thinking you are a special case. What I do want is a professional approach.

 

Some seem to get this and post accordingly - you get my vote.

 

Unfortunately some don't get it at all - you get my kiss off.

 

And then there are the some's that say they get it but reveal themselves (through their posts and attitudes on here) that underneath its all a joke and if they can beat the system they will. These are the ones that get my wrath. These are the ones that give highly skilled professionals a bad name. These are the ones that give me the most concern as these are the ones that I have to clear up after.

 

If I think you fall in this camp, then you get 3rd degree. If you show me respect and listen to what I want rather than fight it, we can work together.

 

 

And finally (because I am being chased by SWMBO to do the garden) in response to 'what do I know'; I have very little personal experience of tree work. I don't need it because you have it. But I know a lot about my job and the attitude demonstrated by some on here is that you don't think I add value to your work. Your right, but then I don't work for you do I? What you have to understand is that before you came along I probably had a meeting with the CEO, an FM Director or other such person to discuss the work. My questions are related to making sure you are fit for the job I need doing, sure I'll take references and look at Chas - but be sure you'll get an interview and quizzing as well. Work with me and I'll even help you answer my questions.

 

Read the posts above in this light and perhaps you might see that I am actually on your side.

 

.... have I heard of competency cards.... I don't know your industry..... I read a h&s story in the Mail so it must be true...have a mate who once....

 

Like I said above - surely anyone can climb and chop trees? Give me some credit perleease!

 

You work in the industry you must come across more jobs worth awkward for the sake of it idiots. No one was attacking you until you made a few arrogant statements. We all work on a daily basis with helpful h&s people otherwise nothing would get done unfortunately there are few bad apples.

 

One advantage to an idiot guide for simple tasks is large companies can employ low paid low skilled staff and cover their back sides with paperwork

[Stefan Palokangas]

I got a friend being a manager on quite a few building sites, i give him a call and see if he got any ones he can copy or templates or something.

 

I hear him quite alot talking about the Health and Safety on building sites how important it is and how he could end up in jail if he done make sure everything is in order.

[Mortimer Firewood]

Ok - not gonna answer all the points raised otherwise its a tennis match rather than a serious conversation. My replies above are solely aimed at those people who have replied on this forum to demonstrate they don't take safety seriously and who seem to think my job is to prevent yours; wrong.

 

Take the comment above. Detritus presumes that it is my vanity (an insult in itself) that causes him unnecessary thought and to reply courteously and constructively to a clients request.

 

He then correctly assumes it is because I am worried about my client or company being sued. Unfortunately he doesn't think why I am being sued - ergo one of you guys being seriously injured, killed or inflicting pain or loss on someone else to whom I owe a duty of care.

 

I don't want volumes, I don't want photo copies of useless information, I don't want to put you out more than any other contractor or subcontractor I use. Your work is no different to other high risk professionals I might use - stop thinking you are a special case. What I do want is a professional approach.

 

Some seem to get this and post accordingly - you get my vote.

 

Unfortunately some don't get it at all - you get my kiss off.

 

And then there are the some's that say they get it but reveal themselves (through their posts and attitudes on here) that underneath its all a joke and if they can beat the system they will. These are the ones that get my wrath. These are the ones that give highly skilled professionals a bad name. These are the ones that give me the most concern as these are the ones that I have to clear up after.

 

If I think you fall in this camp, then you get 3rd degree. If you show me respect and listen to what I want rather than fight it, we can work together.

 

 

And finally (because I am being chased by SWMBO to do the garden) in response to 'what do I know'; I have very little personal experience of tree work. I don't need it because you have it. But I know a lot about my job and the attitude demonstrated by some on here is that you don't think I add value to your work. Your right, but then I don't work for you do I? What you have to understand is that before you came along I probably had a meeting with the CEO, an FM Director or other such person to discuss the work. My questions are related to making sure you are fit for the job I need doing, sure I'll take references and look at Chas - but be sure you'll get an interview and quizzing as well. Work with me and I'll even help you answer my questions.

 

Read the posts above in this light and perhaps you might see that I am actually on your side.

 

.... have I heard of competency cards.... I don't know your industry..... I read a h&s story in the Mail so it must be true...have a mate who once....

 

Like I said above - surely anyone can climb and chop trees? Give me some credit perleease!

 

All bow down to the mighty HSE God .

[Wood wasp]

I've been reading this thread with interest as want to learn more about rams as they're pretty new to me. Unfortunately I've not really learned much.

 

Steve, I think you mean well and something may be getting lost in forum format but I suggest you look at how you're coming over. Trading all over the world I've never came across an attitude like that, not even supermarket buyers communicate in that tone. Shame too as possibly you're the person who really could've added something to this thread.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Anyone watching "George Gently?"

[Gray git]

Ah so that was the answer we needed take the h & s bloke out to lunch. Get him pisked and he'll pas anyting ;-)