Climbers disciplined for refusing tree

[kris turner]

You can't tell someone to do something your not prepared to do your self, common rule of life, if the person issuing the order to climb is not qualified to climb then the decision should be made by the most senior qualified person there

[skyhuck]

I find the fact that its "trees" rather strange?? If it was one tree with a major defect, I could understand it, but how were several all unsafe???

 

Was it a large lifting root plate made up of all the trees??

[Jcarbor]

Hi folks. I have a query regarding disciplinary action being taken against some of my colleagues for refusing to climb what they deemed to be dangerous trees. The incident occurred last week the day after the big storm in which a man was killed on the roads by a tree being uprooted. Temperatures were just above freezing, with ice and snow on ground and at height but weather was clear and wind light. Trees which were to be climbed were leaning heavily. Employees present were all climbers, ranging in experience from only a few months to perhaps six years. The men genuinely believed the trees were hazardous to climb on the day and requested use of alternative access method- MEWP or crane, both of which are owned by the company though i am unsure wether there was access. Management refused to consider alternative and the attempt to resolve matter degenerated into a screaming match. One point to note is that the manager involved does hold tree survey course. Another noteworthy aspect of the situation is that the wage of the employees ranged from £6.50 to £8.50 per hour, fairly low for the industry I believe. It is company policy not to pay any sick pay if an employee is injured in the course of their work.The employees are now facing disciplinary hearing for refusing a reasonable request.

 

My question is how the employees right to refuse dangerous work tasks , under the Health and safety Act applies in the tree industry?

 

 

Saw monkey, I am a director of a Arb contracting company, as a director/ owner I am ultimately vicariously responsible for the safety and well being of my staff, this would be the case for the owner/director of the company you work for. Did the director get involved?

Was there a method statement and risk assessment carried out on the detail? A risk assessment is there to remove the risk did it show up potential risk/s? If my staff ID any risk in a job then it is dealt with and removed no matter the cost.

We were also out in those high winds clearing highways for our client North Yorkshire County Council. We called in heavy lifting gear and 23tracked access platforms for safety.

Who is your employer?

The job we do is one of the most dangerous ones you can do.

If you are concerned please contact the HSE. PM me the name of your company out of curiosity

Regards

Jim

[spudulike]

In manufacturing if a machine is missing its safety guard, an employee is well within their rights to refuse to use it.

 

A forklift driver is also well within their rights to use equipment that their training deems dangerous.

 

Not sure how this one stands but would suspect the decision lays with the experienced climber having the final decision and if there were no politics going on, would expect a court would side with the climbers final decision!

[sawmonkey220]

Ok, I'll answer your questions as best as I can. I had no role at all in the incident, I was about thirty miles away at the time so havent seen site. Im basing my comments on what Ive been told by the climbers involved. I may have to accompany the least experienced climber into disciplinary hearing tomorrow. The trees were not climbed by the surveyor until the whole arguement had turned heated and he climbed into it to prove it could be done. As I said above my main questions would be why a MEWP couldnt be used or the work deferred until climatic conditions improved. There has been two fairly serious accidents in our company this year and all the employees are concerned about getting hurt and relying on statutory.

[born2trot]

I'm sure what the company are doing is highly illegal and by giving the employees a disciplinary hearing trying to instill a fear factor but in actual fact digging a bigger hole for themselves . As some of the lads said do a bit of HSE homework , stand up to them and they will fold like a deck of cards when they realise you are no idiots !!

[Pete Mctree]

Have the issues been recorded in a factual manner by those involved? Structural issues, climatic issues etc been written down & presented professionally to the management?

This is what you need to deliver in a tribuneral - not emotion & hearsay

[Steve Bullman]

Hi folks. I have a query regarding disciplinary action being taken against some of my colleagues for refusing to climb what they deemed to be dangerous trees. The incident occurred last week the day after the big storm in which a man was killed on the roads by a tree being uprooted. Temperatures were just above freezing, with ice and snow on ground and at height but weather was clear and wind light. Trees which were to be climbed were leaning heavily. Employees present were all climbers, ranging in experience from only a few months to perhaps six years. The men genuinely believed the trees were hazardous to climb on the day and requested use of alternative access method- MEWP or crane, both of which are owned by the company though i am unsure wether there was access. Management refused to consider alternative and the attempt to resolve matter degenerated into a screaming match. One point to note is that the manager involved does hold tree survey course. Another noteworthy aspect of the situation is that the wage of the employees ranged from £6.50 to £8.50 per hour, fairly low for the industry I believe. It is company policy not to pay any sick pay if an employee is injured in the course of their work.The employees are now facing disciplinary hearing for refusing a reasonable request.

My question is how the employees right to refuse dangerous work tasks , under the Health and safety Act applies in the tree industry?

I wish them luck with that policy lol

[tree man69]

ty clim if u have a cherry picker climing is a last resort so hi say any one agree or not

[felixthelogchopper]

I wish them luck with that policy lol

 

Fortunately there are no end of ambulance chasing lawyers to help them see the error of their ways.