The end of firewood?

[woody woodpecker]

now impacting on me and I don't see why I should sit back and say on you go chaps run your illegal businesses and put me on the dole queue because I shouldn't report you

 

going from the above statement you are going to report me just because I work 9to 5 and you are ASSUMEING that I don't pay tax on my firewood sales Wrong .

[Logsnstuff]

So friggin what? As mentioned in an earlier post, Eddie Stobart started with logs and then found something more profitable. I myself have moved sharply away from logs over the past few years.

 

Businesses constantly evolve due to market conditions. You are the epitome of a poor businessman if you cannot accept this and seek to drag others down to benefit yourself. You really think the only alternative option is to fold and work for someone? I know I said the entry barriers to the log trade were low, but come on!

 

You don't see Waitrose running smear campaigns against other supermarkets. OK, there might be some tongue in cheek advertising but that's about it. And they do pretty well despite being more expensive. Your business model is similar I believe, premium product? In which case, if you are the Waitrose of wood, why do you feel the need to drag others down?

 

An idiot is someone who keeps doing the same thing and expects a different result.[/QUOT

 

you seem not to be able to grasp they are running illegally, you don't walk past some one robbing a house or someone being raped/murdered so why do you think this is acceptable, a crime is a crime. it's a not a smear campaign and it's not dragging others down. If they are running legitimately I say good luck to them they will need it.

I have delivered to 3 customers in the last month who have been buying from me off and on for 5+ years they each tried new cheaper competition and got unseasoned logs, moisture meter couldn't read them they were so green. these people know we are selling sub 20% logs but they can't resist trying the cheaper guy. my sales 2012 were down about 30-40% 2013 down about 60% this season looking marginally better than last.

 

on the hypocrisy of people in this forum look at the tree surgeons in the summer crying like stuck pigs because some new people are moving in at 50-80% cheaper rates but it's ok for them to do the same to firewood merchants.

[Logsnstuff]

now impacting on me and I don't see why I should sit back and say on you go chaps run your illegal businesses and put me on the dole queue because I shouldn't report you

 

going from the above statement you are going to report me just because I work 9to 5 and you are ASSUMEING that I don't pay tax on my firewood sales Wrong .

 

you seem desperate for an argument, for 1 thing I said there was no need for me to report people down south as you don't impact me, that's for others around you to do if necessary and if your running legitimately then why would anyone need to report you, as long as your paying your tax on your sales I doubt anyone cares what your doing.

[Logsnstuff]

Ok understood, so what are they doing that's illegal, just curious now?

 

selling for cash not declaring the tax.

[Scotty38]

selling for cash not declaring the tax.

 

ok but again how do you KNOW they are not declaring it, that's all I'm asking?

 

I don't want to be facetious and ask if you sit with them when they fill in their tax returns so just wondering how you know what they're doing behind closed doors.

[woody woodpecker]

IF you are so unhappy with the current state of affairs in the firewood industry and what others are doing why don't you try something else you can go on moaning forever its never going to change there will always be the beer money people we have them down hear if you are selling a good product people will always come back ,you are not the only one down on takings this year we are down 50% on last year you just have to take the rough with the smooth.

[MattyF]

Thing is this goes right across the board with tree work in general.

I was competing against fellas that boasted they had not paid tax in ten years used stolen chippers and saws to make there money and blagged every job whilst lying there way in to the position they are in today whilst under cutting other people like myself who pay tax have insurance and buy gear on credit and have qualifications in Arb .... Fair play to any one who feels the need to report them, I've never been a grass although the thought of revenge is sweet I believe in karma and I could never work out who was the bigger fool... Me for trying to stick to the rules of the system and getting crapped on or the players who take everything.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Lucky you have a broad back Logs.

 

That's a considerable backlash (in terms of enthusiasm, but notably only from a few not many contributors) against what (I think) was a fair point you make and if I understand your point, you are agonising / considering what might be the right thing to do? If I understand the circumstances you describe correctly, I for one would not disagree with your potential position.

 

A challenging issue with comparisons across many circumstances in everyday life. Should we "walk on by" or should we do what is considered "the right thing" (and that is massively subjective)

 

Does our society lack the moral fibre to do the right thing?

 

It's a different circumstance, but I too have a moral dilemma. I have passed a site daily for the past few months where it is obvious to the casual observer that H&S issues are dangerously flouted, misunderstood or ignored. It's construction not arb. As its developed, the dodgy work at height routines have progressed from being within the site to now adjacent to highway and footpath. If the decidedly dodgy tower were to collapse now it has the potential to fall in the busy road.

 

Well, there is a council hub, police, fire & ambulance station within 200m of the site - how is it that none of those public sector employees have either noticed or taken any action to report the circumstances to HSE? Should I do it?

 

I know it's a small operator earning a living but blatantly taking short cuts and saving costs. I also know that working at height & construction sector are high in the HSE accident stats.

 

So I have a choice (a) do nothing and hope it doesn't affect me / someone I know or (b) report to HSE in the anticipation of potentially averting an accident but potentially negatively affecting the bloke trying to make a living.

 

Walk on by or be a good citizen?

 

Retreating into armoured bunker now in anticipation! (Seriously, fire away if you feel strongly one way or the other, I too have a broad back!)

[renewablejohn]

Even if the dodgy dealer was getting £50 for every tonne bag he would need to sell over 200 bags before he has any tax liability whatsoever thanks to the high tax personal allowances. If the wood in the bag cost him £25 a bag then he could sell 400 bags without the need to pay any tax whatsoever.

 

Big difference between making a profit and having to pay tax.

Edited January 8, 2015 by renewablejohn

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Even if the dodgy dealer was getting £50 for every tonne bag he would need to sell over 200 bags before he has any tax liability whatsoever thanks to the high tax personal allowances. If the wood in the bag cost him £25 a bag then he could sell 400 bags without the need to pay any tax whatsoever.

 

 

All true, but based on an assumption that it would be the only source of income rather than a sideline....