Insurance without tickets

[AHPP]

AHPP, please suggest a sensible alternative to tickets as a means of proving competence?

 

I thought posts 3 and 4 had established its very difficult.

 

Sure tickets aint perfect, in fact I agree they are a bit of a joke, but for the purposes of securing insurance and covering your duty of care as an employer for H&S they really are the only game in town.

 

I think the answer is pretty similar to my earlier post (that was more about the work itself, not insurance):

 

I think you just have to start from a presumption that people will stick to their word and do a good job (unless there are serious red flags - "Sorry I'm late to quote, sir. I just dropped a Giant Redwood on my truck.").

 

How did anyone judge a tradesman in the good(bad?) old days? You couldn't show a portfolio of neat work on your smartphone. Nobody had tickets.

I imagine people relied on trust, reputation and the economic reality that bad people shouldn't be able to survive in business.

 

People were insured for work long before our current age of lazy paperwork accountability. I imagine insurers did things like ask questions about the nature of your business and exercised judgement.

[Shane]

This has identified an issue well beyond tickets/experience.

Philosophically speaking....

If something goes wrong, it MUST be because the circumstances were not foreseen by the person 'responsible'.

 

Whether you have tickets or not, if you fail to predict the outcome and therefore it all goes belly up the insurers have a get-out.

 

Has anyone on here had an arb claim paid? Anyone had one rejected?

What is the collective expreience on this forum?

[skyhuck]

This has identified an issue well beyond tickets/experience.

Philosophically speaking....

If something goes wrong, it MUST be because the circumstances were not foreseen by the person 'responsible'.

 

Whether you have tickets or not, if you fail to predict the outcome and therefore it all goes belly up the insurers have a get-out.

 

Has anyone on here had an arb claim paid? Anyone had one rejected?

What is the collective expreience on this forum?

 

If this was true most car accident claims would go unpaid.

 

I've claimed on my PL insurance once, theft several times and had a subbie take me to the cleaners with a "no win, no fee" firm, for an accident that was 100% his own fault, all costs were covered (except excess were applicable) without issue.

 

People really bitch about insurance Co's, but in my experience when things have gone bad they have always come through for me.

[Mesterh]

People were insured for work long before our current age of lazy paperwork accountability. I imagine insurers did things like ask questions about the nature of your business and exercised judgement.

 

Yeah and I bet a lot of them lied about how experienced they were.

 

If I was an insurance company I wouldn't trust someone on the end of the phone telling me how great they are and that they have all the experience in the world, would you?

 

I pay insurance not just for my sake but for the piece of mind that if I do cock

up some other poor bugger isn't left out of pocket. If that requires bits of paper then so be it.

 

IMO PL should be compulsory for all trades.

[daltontrees]

Thank you for debating intelligently. Others have not been so kind.

 

All I would add is that tere are instances in H&S Regs where an operative has to be competent and there are instances where the operative has to have demonstrated competence. LANTRA training courses are for getting competent, NPTC tickets are for demopnstrating competence. I think using a chainsaw is an example of the latter and using a chipper is an example of the former. You might be very experienced and totally competent, but if the law says you have to have demonstrated it by getting ticket and you haven't, you're a bit stuffed. But nly, I would guess, if the claim relates to that competence. so for example if someone falls into a chipper you're insurance might not be invalidated just because you don't have the chainsaw ticket.

[AHPP]

You might be very experienced and totally competent, but if the law says you have to have demonstrated it by getting ticket and you haven't, you're a bit stuffed.

 

Luckily, the law doesn't say I have to.

[daltontrees]

Luckily, the law doesn't say I have to.

 

Oh but it does. Start with the Healt & Safety at Work Act, it provides for regulations and for Approved Codes of Practice to be admissible in criminal proceedings. Then move on the PUWE Regulations, it imposes specific dutues fr training and competence.

 

I don't think the law requires tickets as a prerequisite for insurance, but insurance is not immunity form the law.

 

You might want to look into whther you have 'grandfather rights' and whether these are in law an adequate substitute for tickets.

[Ian C]

Just a thought, if nptc tickets arr given out like sweets, your words not mine why not just go het some and have done with it?

 

My guess is your not capable of getting them.

[AHPP]

Oh but it does. Start with the Healt & Safety at Work Act, it provides for regulations and for Approved Codes of Practice to be admissible in criminal proceedings. Then move on the PUWE Regulations, it imposes specific dutues fr training and competence.

 

This thread is specifically about NPTC chainsaw certificates. The point we are discussing was very discrete; do you HAVE to have them to cut trees?

I say there is no law that says something like, "It shall be an offence to cut trees without NPTC or other industry standard certificates." If you say there is, find it and show me.

[john k]

This thread is specifically about NPTC chainsaw certificates. The point we are discussing was very discrete; do you HAVE to have them to cut trees?

 

I say there is no law that says something like, "It shall be an offence to cut trees without NPTC or other industry standard certificates." If you say there is, find it and show me.

 

 

You are not required to have any tickets, but if you are using a chainsaw for work you are required to be competent.

 

A chainsaw certificate indicates that your competence has been assessed to an agreed standard by an impartial third party. For most people this is the easiest way of providing evidence of competence that will meet the legal requirements.

 

You may be god's gift to the chainsaw world, or you may be a delusional lunatic who shouldn't be allowed anything sharper than a crayon. How do you propose to establish your credentials to a potential insurer?

 

As an aside, are you completely confident that there is nothing more you could learn about using a chainsaw safely? When I did my 30/31 course a few years ago we had someone with 25 years experience and no tickets. He didn't really want to be there and didn't think it would be useful, but watching his attitude change over a few days was interesting.