Dealing with the big boys!

[Rick2517]

I would like to share my experience with other business owners in regards to working with large construction companies. We don't tend to attract/take on a huge amount of this type of work and every time we do I get a sharp reminder to why I prefer to stick to "mrs smiths cypress hedge".

Il try not to break any forum rules here but I feel that others may benifit form learning from my mistakes so it's important to me to share.

 

We took on a large contract on a well known mod site for a very well known construction company ( it's actually 2 of the biggest construction companies in the south west combined into 1, mentioning no names!!)

 

It's the biggest job we have ever taken on and it was very scary for me to quote as to get it wrong would have ment a big bit!! However it worked out that the quote was worked out 100% bang on, yo the day (it's was 25 days worth of work) or so I thought....

As the job progressed there where a few changes made to the spec I.e leave that 2m cherry as it looks nice and like. The biggest change was that our stump grinding team turned up on site to smash out all grinding in 1 day and they where refused entry to site, there was 2 main reasons for this, 1: they did not have an asbesdos awareness ticket and 2 a ground survey was not carried out prior.

Our reply to this issue was that the aspestos awareness cirt could be carried out on line on the day (on there iPad) and a cirt will be issuespd instantly and the guys where certified and had the kit to carry out ground surveys/scanning themselves. This was not acceptable as they insisted that the survey had to be carried out by there own Surveyer so they where turned away from site.

Now this grinding was booked in 5 weeks in advance and they where fully aware that we where coming on this day.

So we left site and told then to let us know when the survey was complete so we could return to carry out the grinding.

When the survey was finally done and the guys finally returned they where told that there where only half the amount of stumps to grind as they had to dig the stumps out themselves to crack on with the construction works. So we carried out the remaining of the grinding works and sent in our final invoice.

 

I have today received a payment summary stating that they are detecting £1800+ vat form our invoice to cover the cost of them using a third party to remove stumps.

 

I know I'm going to be fighting a loosing battle but still it's one I'm going to fight, but I've learnt a valuval lesson and one that I wish somebody shared with me before quoting this job:

 

Calculate you're price that you would usually charge and then add 25% to allow for this sort of un moral and un fair treatment that you will almost certainly come accross when dealing with these people.

 

This may already be something that most of you already know but if I can help 1 person avoid this horrible situation then it would be worth the very long post.

 

Take care

[treequip]

I would like to share my experience with other business owners in regards to working with large construction companies. We don't tend to attract/take on a huge amount of this type of work and every time we do I get a sharp reminder to why I prefer to stick to "mrs smiths cypress hedge".

Il try not to break any forum rules here but I feel that others may benifit form learning from my mistakes so it's important to me to share.

 

We took on a large contract on a well known mod site for a very well known construction company ( it's actually 2 of the biggest construction companies in the south west combined into 1, mentioning no names!!)

 

It's the biggest job we have ever taken on and it was very scary for me to quote as to get it wrong would have ment a big bit!! However it worked out that the quote was worked out 100% bang on, yo the day (it's was 25 days worth of work) or so I thought....

As the job progressed there where a few changes made to the spec I.e leave that 2m cherry as it looks nice and like. The biggest change was that our stump grinding team turned up on site to smash out all grinding in 1 day and they where refused entry to site, there was 2 main reasons for this, 1: they did not have an asbesdos awareness ticket and 2 a ground survey was not carried out prior.

Our reply to this issue was that the aspestos awareness cirt could be carried out on line on the day (on there iPad) and a cirt will be issuespd instantly and the guys where certified and had the kit to carry out ground surveys/scanning themselves. This was not acceptable as they insisted that the survey had to be carried out by there own Surveyer so they where turned away from site.

Now this grinding was booked in 5 weeks in advance and they where fully aware that we where coming on this day.

So we left site and told then to let us know when the survey was complete so we could return to carry out the grinding.

When the survey was finally done and the guys finally returned they where told that there where only half the amount of stumps to grind as they had to dig the stumps out themselves to crack on with the construction works. So we carried out the remaining of the grinding works and sent in our final invoice.

 

I have today received a payment summary stating that they are detecting £1800+ vat form our invoice to cover the cost of them using a third party to remove stumps.

 

I know I'm going to be fighting a loosing battle but still it's one I'm going to fight, but I've learnt a valuval lesson and one that I wish somebody shared with me before quoting this job:

 

Calculate you're price that you would usually charge and then add 25% to allow for this sort of un moral and un fair treatment that you will almost certainly come accross when dealing with these people.

 

This may already be something that most of you already know but if I can help 1 person avoid this horrible situation then it would be worth the very long post.

 

Take care

 

If that's the worst that's happened you did well.

 

Wait till you get one that forms a limited company around the build then drags out payment until they can wind the company up to avoid paying a load of bills. I spotted the change on the purchase order and sent it back with a "no thanks". Others weren't so lucky

[sean]

Unfortunately we live in a world where ethics , morality and doing the right thing seem to be just words. And its not just 'the big boys'.

[Kenty]

For a small company thats a lot of money to lose.

I would fight it, after all they changed the spec.

Its always exciting when you get the call that you've won a large job but they come with their problems.

I have had similar problems in the past with small construction firms so these days I don't take them on.

Keep fighting on & I hope you get the monies owed to you.

 

Regards

 

Darren

[MattyF]

Did a load of clearance stuff on hospital refurbs in London when I first went self employed and it it nearly bankrupt me waiting to be paid, said no thanks to any other works they offered... The next big job I had booked in with a developer the job had already been done when we turned up on site and I had a large hired tracked chipper and stump grinder turning up in a few hours.. Never bothered pricing any more again.

 

 

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[Steve Bullman]

Always add a significant contingency into any large quote

 

 

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[treequip]

Always add a significant contingency into any large quote

 

 

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That is the gospel

[Mark Bolam]

I can never understand why people let bigger companies dictate their payment terms to them.

90 days? 180 days? How far do you want to bend over?

They ask me to work for them, it's on my terms, which are payment on completion or interim payments on bigger jobs.

You need to be discussing this before you even agree to quote. If they don't like it they can get some other mug to drop his keks and lube himself up with a handful of sand.

 

 

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[Craig Johnson]

and don't forget they might ask for a 'main contractors discount' or stick a 5% retention on for 12 months, which you very rarely see again

[madbopper]

I can never understand why people let bigger companies dictate their payment terms to them.

90 days? 180 days? How far do you want to bend over?

They ask me to work for them, it's on my terms, which are payment on completion or interim payments on bigger jobs.

You need to be discussing this before you even agree to quote. If they don't like it they can get some other mug to drop his keks and lube himself up with a handful of sand.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Arbtalk

 

Completely agree with mark,we used to carry out loads of work for construction companies and what you need to think about is that the contract manager is just a man like you same as the site surveyor same as the site agent they just seem scary because they have a big name behind them. Don't take a knife to a gun fight, and my solicitor always told me if your going to shoot someone use both barrels, go back to them and hit them with every thing you have. turn the situation around to help you. These companies do these things all the time hoping you will lay down and take it. We won a massive amount of money of a company after we were told we couldn't work between 12-2 due to noise restrictions we read our contract and hit them with both barrels. Don't take it lying down.