Have to renew all NPTC units every 5 years

[john p]

didn't think so

 

 

 

how often is 'training done a long time ago' cited as the main contributing factor in an accident/incident? any examples?

 

 

 

From what I can see it doesn't carry enough relevance to justify the introduction of refresher/update training.

 

The training providers will like it though, more cash for them.

 

Good post

 

 

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[scotspine1]

If most people in the arb industry are comfortable that their specific skill set and level of experience suits the work they carry out then they shouldn't really be forced to pay for a refresher/update course......especially if they have been building valuable experience on a daily basis for years on end with no extended breaks away from the job.

 

On a general note about refresher/update training - it's insulting to assume people have forgotten how to carry out a specific task they received training in. It's also insulting to assume people haven't being keeping up to date with new developments or techniques that would make the job safer or more efficient.

 

I can see some employers thinking refresher training is a good idea if they have a member of staff who just goes through the motions at work - has picked up a lot of bad habits and has no interest in keeping up to date with new developments, but for the rest of us people out there who carry out the work professionally and take pride in doing the job right refresher/update training just doesn't apply.

 

HSE want the industry to bring down the number of accidents, but there's always going to be accidents, you can't eliminate serious injury or death from treework, it's just not that kind of job, mainly because we work at height.

 

Even the most knowledgeable and experienced people have accidents.

[MattyF]

As far as I see it the refresher argument is absolute rubbish .... Another reason for paper pushers to have a job and accessors to charge there fees, for those in the industry who are not already struggling and working them selfs in the real world ... The only accident I'm going to have is pushing my self to a limit to pay for all your course fees! ... In 15 years I have not had one accident since my training at merrist wood and following every brake through and innovation in the industry and I have dismantled and felled thousands of trees.

This will not stop accidents it will drive are prices up higher making a nice little influx for cowboys who will have accidents.

[treequip]

Hi, - perhaps 'pushed it through' is the wrong term but the way I understand it is HSE said either the industry does it or they will - exactly what happened with construction. Once it has come in HSE will come and look at Arb - there's more chainsaw users in Arb than forestry and probably more accidents. I'm not against refresher training but this is just a scatter gun with no reference to an individuals or companies safety record. I dont think they've even though about the type of accident - ie if all the accidents are relating to say the tree felling element then that's what they should concentrate on at refreshers - instead of just repeating the training course.

 

Completely wrong, the reason that this is happening is because the HSE has identified an unacceptable rate of accidents in forestry, in that industry there are a couple of big players dominating the market so all that's needed is to get them to comply and job done.

 

That is the standard "M.O." for the HSE but because of the lack of single major players in arb means that model simply wont work. If it did they would have handled the top handle saw thing that way instead of the much weaker manufacturers accord method.

 

The accident stats for forestry are pretty accurate because of the way the HSE categorised accidents in industry groups and for the most part "have a go's" don't get into the woods in the same way they do in arb.

 

Arb accident stats are polluted because anyone who comes unstuck whilst wielding a chainsaw is designated arb by the HSE. In actual fact many are actually other trades that have had a go and come unstuck. The people in the know at the HSE are aware of this.

 

As far as your inference that the HSE are going to roll this out to the arb sector goes, could you explain how they are going to make that work please?

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

 

As far as your inference that the HSE are going to roll this out to the arb sector goes, could you explain how they are going to make that work please?

 

I too think this is highly unlikely for the reasons you've mentioned. The only possibility where it will be enforced is contractors working on term contracts with Local Authorities...but that will then have an impact on cost and LAs won't like that either!

[Yorkshireman]

I too think this is highly unlikely for the reasons you've mentioned. The only possibility where it will be enforced is contractors working on term contracts with Local Authorities...but that will then have an impact on cost and LAs won't like that either!

 

you took the words out of my mouth , especially where in cost saving rounds LA and other clients have cut their DLO teams to save money

 

it also comes to practicality's , I may be wildly wrong but are there circa 15,000 Arborists across the Uk , at various levels of skill & stages of their career

 

whatever the figure x lets say that a finite number of Arborists have 10 separate COc per individual

 

all of which might need to be re assessed by qualified assessors, who at best number in the low hundreds whom will in part be tasked to get through on a five year cycle the approx number of units across 52 weeks not discounting the xmas week , circa 250 days per year

 

perhaps it doesn't need Einstein to work out there maybe a supply chain issue !

Edited October 1, 2013 by Yorkshireman

[Hodge]

my problem regarding the power company has been sorted now and I ca move forward.

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

you took the words out of my mouth , especially where in cost saving rounds LA and other clients have cut their DLO teams to save money

 

it also comes to practicality's , I may be wildly wrong but are there circa 15,000 Arborists across the Uk , at various levels of skill & stages of their career

 

whatever the figure x lets say that a finite number of Arborists have 10 separate COc per individual

 

all of which might need to be re assessed by qualified assessors, who at best number in the low hundreds whom will in part be tasked to get through on a five year cycle the approx number of units across 52 weeks not discounting the xmas week , circa 250 days per year

 

perhaps it doesn't need Einstein to work out there maybe a supply chain issue !

 

Hi Iain, hope you're well.

 

The areas of 'refresher/update' training and competence I concentrate on emphasising the importance of are climbing, aerial rescue and rigging as there have been significant advances / 'changes' in the last few years....and first aid of course. I think this makes sense and justifies the expenditure incurred (easy for me to say I know but it should also be viewed as an investment / CPD etc.)

 

Regarding ground based chainsaw skills, we often see only CS31 (as was, and often 10 years or more ago) and hence require a refresher / update / up-skill to CS32/33 (as was, now combined and "felling trees more than 380mm dia.") within 2 yrs. under the ArbAC Scheme.

 

I hope the industry, both the tree surgery and the training / assessment sectors, consider this 'reasonable' as HSE appear to.

 

Cheers..

Paul

[scotspine1]

I hope the industry, both the tree surgery and the training / assessment sectors, consider this 'reasonable' as HSE appear to.

 

Cheers..

Paul

 

The idea that the HSE thinks refresher/update training is 'reasonable' shows just how detached they are from the reality of tree care contracting.

 

It's not reasonable at all, it's a waste of money.

[treequip]

The idea that the HSE thinks refresher/update training is 'reasonable' shows just how detached they are from the reality of tree care contracting.

 

It's not reasonable at all, it's a waste of money.

 

How attached do you recon they ought to be, they oversee the entire world of work in the UK.

 

 

I doubt that they are that attached to any industry

 

If they got that involed, an I for one am glad they aren't more interested it would cost a fortune, cheaper to do the refresher and not have someone looking ove your shoulder methinks