Overloaded

[Canal Navvy]

48 minutes ago, Justme said:

What sort of minefield do you think it is?

It didn't seem to go terribly well for Isuzu UK 

[Justme]

7 minutes ago, Canal Navvy said:

It didn't seem to go terribly well for Isuzu UK 

Do you have a link to info?

[Baldbloke]

That is a very high nose weight limit for a vehicle. Not sure any Landrovers have one that high.
 
It is well in excess of what the trailer would be allowed to have.

You’re probably right. It was a while ago that I looked it up. But I do know that with a weight of an E class on the trailer it needed more than the permitted nose weight to tow without a weave

[Baldbloke]

That is a very high nose weight limit for a vehicle. Not sure any Landrovers have one that high.
 
It is well in excess of what the trailer would be allowed to have.

Yes, just checked. 150kg[emoji15]

[difflock]

Hmmm, thoughts:

(i) to "pull out" of "the tail wagging the Dog", gently ease off the throttle, perhaps very light braking, and pray, but difficult to achieve on a downwith with self-inflicted excess speed combined with gravity assisted acceleration.

I think I only had it once in a decrepit Army Series III, which was snaking was due to an almost entirely unsecured/unbolted steering box, for which the hairy arsed REME bloke apologized(400 or so miles later) to a wet-behind-the-ears 2Lt, who had reported the veh defect on each stop, but was ignored until we got to Dover.

 

(ii) What is this nose weight I keep reading about?

All I ever do is make sure the trailer is level, on level ground, when hitched to the towing vehicle and loaded, since the trailer wheels will always be rear of trailer centre, the COG will be forward of trailer centre, and if the trailer is level it is not overloading the tug, with a visual inspection of the stance of the tug being instructive.

On this basis, I loaded and towed a 800Kg trailer + a 2500Kg SWB = 3300Kg to Wicklow and back, with the softly coil-sprung 461 Van, this yoke behaving impeccably throughout the round trip, despite a couple of blokes telling me the SWB was too far back on the trailer.

like?

Did they not realize it had a Cast Iron 617 Diesel boat anchor in the engine bay nicely forward of the trailer COG.

Plus the dynamic forces generated by braking in particular, in particular with a relatively high 4WD as a load, will so far outweigh the quoted static 50mm ball loadings as to render them almost irrevelant. IMHO and experience.

Anyway this has worked for me towing, and no doubt by times overloaded, with mostly humble FWD cars over a 40 year period, only recently having the luxery of the 461 Van.

Regards,

Marcus

Edited November 23, 2019 by difflock

[Justme]

8 hours ago, Baldbloke said:

 

You’re probably right. It was a while ago that I looked it up. But I do know that with a weight of an E class on the trailer it needed more than the permitted nose weight to tow without a weave

 

The recommended amount with a correctly loaded trailer is 5-7% of actual weight. So even a fully loaded 3500kg trailer should not need that much.

[Justme]

6 hours ago, difflock said:

 

 

(ii) What is this nose weight I keep reading about?

 

The quoted static 50mm ball loadings.

 

Nose weight / static load. Same thing.

 

Get it wrong and you will be unstable during the times you are not braking ie the biggest part of the drive.

[difflock]

59 minutes ago, Justme said:

Nose weight / static load. Same thing.

 

Get it wrong and you will be unstable during the times you are not braking ie the biggest part of the drive.

Well I knew that!

BUT,

I choose the more pragamatic "level" loaded trailer/tug stance, ALWAYS assuming the empty trailer hitch height was correctly matched to the 50mm vehicle towball coupling, you know, like the exercise of uncommon good sense.

Also what percentage of nose-weight is lost due to atmospheric drag on a bluff trailer shape, or bluff shaped high load on the trailer?

And as stated, despite "expert" opinions to the contrary, my farmers Son eye-ball loading worked perfectly when loading and towing a high bluff load of a measured 3300Kg some 400 miles.

I did not exceed 50mph and even then worked my way up to 50, having sat at 40mph  for a few miles, until I was satisfied with the stability and handling, and then checking and fractionally tightening my tie-downs .

regards

Marcus

[Justme]

6 minutes ago, difflock said:

Well I knew that!

BUT,

I choose the more pragamatic "level" loaded trailer/tug stance, ALWAYS assuming the empty trailer hitch height was correctly matched to the 50mm vehicle towball coupling, you know, like the exercise of uncommon good sense.

Also what percentage of nose-weight is lost due to atmospheric drag on a bluff trailer shape, or bluff shaped high load on the trailer?

And as stated, despite "expert" opinions to the contrary, my farmers Son eye-ball loading worked perfectly when loading and towing a high bluff load of a measured 3300Kg some 400 miles.

I did not exceed 50mph and even then worked my way up to 50, having sat at 40mph  for a few miles, until I was satisfied with the stability and handling, and then checking and fractionally tightening my tie-downs .

regards

Marcus

Ah the old "I am a farmer" so I know better approach.

Accidents in the farming industry say otherwise & its time farmers in general took more notice of safety & safe working / best practice.

 

Looking at most farm vehicles whilst towing & they are clearly overloaded, excessive nose weight, mostly insecure loads with lots having no working lights and no number plate. Hardly a beacon of excellence to stand behind.

 

Not all vehicle trailer and load combo's will be level when correct.

Adjusting nose load is not to be level.

 

Caravans tend to run slightly nose down, which is much better than slightly nose up.

 

Towballs and hitches should be between the spec but that's when fully loaded. Pickups and 4x4 tend to be far to high if not fully loaded.

 

[kkk2]

Here is a link to a nose weight demo which shows the effects very well

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2fkOVHAC8Q