council competing against us! disgusting!

[WorcsWuss]

This thread has degenerated somewhat into a bit of an ugly slagging match. It is totally unfair to say that one lot is lazy or their standard of work is poor...

 

I am against state funded organisations competing with the private sector on principle. We have to ask ourselves; what is the state for? it it there to provide a public service? or to create employment for all?

 

The business plan of the LA tree team just doesn't add up...

 

The question of state sponsored workers taking on private jobs is never going to be fair simply because it is impossible for an LA to quote for a private job and still take into account the true cost of running their organisation. The way that budgets are organised within LA's are so complicated that it is impossible to put a real cost on the overheads of an LA tree team. They have annual budgets, capital expenditure budgets, revenue expenditure budgets and they have a whole organisation behind them including, procurement, HR, Legal, Admin etc and to complicate things even further chances are the "tree team" will probably be part of another organisation like parks maintenance or cemeteries. Trying to separate out the costs for the tree team in this scenario would require a team of skilled auditors.

 

The upshot of this is that when an LA quote for private work there is no way they can guarantee that no public money is subsidising the job. In urban areas they will have yards with good security in locations that the average tree firm could never afford to rent or buy. They may share this yard with another council department, ( my nearest council depot shares roads and parks) how can the costs of owning running and maintaining these spaces be divided between different departments within the council? are these reflected in their private rates? I doubt it. ANd the huge cost of the pensions that these guys get?

That will come from centric council / government coffers and will never appear on the teams budget.... If any of you LA guys know otherwise please let us know...

 

The only way this could be done fairly is if the Department in question was given no budget at all, and I mean none! They would pay rent on their yard at market rate have their own admin, HR, Legal etc and pay their own staff pension contributions. All council works however large or small would be put out to tender and everyone would have a chance of bidding for the work. Some councils already claim to do this, but in reality when you take into account the great yard space they get and the free dump sites all over town and the staff pensions, admin etc etc they are in fact still sponsored by the state.[ATTACH]87287[/ATTACH]

 

 

and for that reason I'M OUT....

 

As ever,

Precisely the factual and logical argument to put an end to this.

No public sector body should compete with private sector companies for private work.... unless the local authority is going make things fair and pay for private companies rent, rates etc of course.....

Public sector workers are there SOLELY for the purpose of working without further charge for us all. End of.

 

I have seen this scenario appear in construction recently, planning departments now will not visit your property to give advice on a planning application, you have to fill out what essentially amounts to a full planning application and pay a fee, just to find out if you need to make a planning application. I'm sorry, but they are paid for this service already, that is what they are employed to do by the taxpayer already, I fail to see how it can even be legal for a public office to charge the public again individually to carry out nothing more than the job they are employed to do.

 

If the public sector want to charge the public for their services, or compete for private work, then we should not be paying the level of council tax we do and / or ALL council services need to be opened up to the private sector, including things like the ability to grant planning permission. It seems that the public sector want it all ways. Rather than accepting [granted, understandably] that local authorities are grossly overstaffed and a massive financial burden which needs to be streamlined, they cling onto these massive structures they have created by finding new ways to take money off us to perpetuate their existence.

 

And all the while, they continue to waste money... I got a letter the other day telling me the council had conducted height surveys in all the schools in Worcestershire and purchased booster seats for children who need to use them in cars to use on school buses, my 5 year old included. The letter ended saying that it's not a legal requirement but they thought it was a good idea. I wrote a very strong letter back requested statistics showing how many children died on school buses in the last 5 years and how many deaths or injuries would have been prevented through the use of booster seats.

I may be wrong but my guess is zero on both counts.

 

I really do despair. I believe that local government & the wider public spending model we have represents the greatest hurdle to regaining economic vibility in this country [look what it's done to Greece] and the sad thing is there seems to be nothing ANYONE can do about it. Central government tell them to save money and cut their budgets? They just start charging for things. It's not what they're there for and someone needs to be a bit firmer with them and remind them of this in my humble opinion.

 

I'm so exhausted now I just fell off my soapboax...

[Jesse]

As ever,

Precisely the factual and logical argument to put an end to this.

No public sector body should compete with private sector companies for private work.... unless the local authority is going make things fair and pay for private companies rent, rates etc of course.....

Public sector workers are there SOLELY for the purpose of working without further charge for us all. End of.

 

I have seen this scenario appear in construction recently, planning departments now will not visit your property to give advice on a planning application, you have to fill out what essentially amounts to a full planning application and pay a fee, just to find out if you need to make a planning application. I'm sorry, but they are paid for this service already, that is what they are employed to do by the taxpayer already, I fail to see how it can even be legal for a public office to charge the public again individually to carry out nothing more than the job they are employed to do.

 

If the public sector want to charge the public for their services, or compete for private work, then we should not be paying the level of council tax we do and / or ALL council services need to be opened up to the private sector, including things like the ability to grant planning permission. It seems that the public sector want it all ways. Rather than accepting [granted, understandably] that local authorities are grossly overstaffed and a massive financial burden which needs to be streamlined, they cling onto these massive structures they have created by finding new ways to take money off us to perpetuate their existence.

 

And all the while, they continue to waste money... I got a letter the other day telling me the council had conducted height surveys in all the schools in Worcestershire and purchased booster seats for children who need to use them in cars to use on school buses, my 5 year old included. The letter ended saying that it's not a legal requirement but they thought it was a good idea. I wrote a very strong letter back requested statistics showing how many children died on school buses in the last 5 years and how many deaths or injuries would have been prevented through the use of booster seats.

I may be wrong but my guess is zero on both counts.

 

I really do despair. I believe that local government & the wider public spending model we have represents the greatest hurdle to regaining economic vibility in this country [look what it's done to Greece] and the sad thing is there seems to be nothing ANYONE can do about it. Central government tell them to save money and cut their budgets? They just start charging for things. It's not what they're there for and someone needs to be a bit firmer with them and remind them of this in my humble opinion.

 

I'm so exhausted now I just fell off my soapboax...

Apologies if any one is my offended by my words but this is a discussion forum-very well said TomD and WorcsWuss and thats me out too.

[Johny Walker]

its only the same as a co under cutting another co coz they have lower overheads, or in some cases none , those wi out insurance,yards etc theyll soon realise it costs them money & pull out of it ,

[skyhuck]

One of my LA's tree team has started started doing private work, when I first found out I was very angry. I think its totally wrong and unfair.

 

However, after talking to the guys on the tree team it was a case one of them being made redundant or doing private work to cover his wage.

 

While it really ticks me off, I don't want any one to lose their job, so I hope it works out for them and that it does not have to much of an affect on my business.

 

The same goes for charging for TPO's to come on site before an application, it used to be free, now its £30 (or just apply without a site meeting) but apparently these new charges for these and other planing services are going to save 13 job.

 

Times are tough and I don't want to see anyone losing their jobs.

[Johny Walker]

those l/a that are chasing private works are thy still getting in subcontractors to do some of there work ,????

[RobArb]

I find it quite offensive that some see fit to slate one another on a public forum that I help to run, just because of who their employer happens to be. At the end of the day, we are all in the same boat. I do not care if you are council employed, self-employed, privately employed, youre lucky not to be unemployed in this day and age. Its about time some got off their high horses and looked at how they lead their own lives, before sniping at others.

 

:congrats:

[Gareth Dalzell]

Personally, as a private company we had to give back all the work we,d taken from public bodies and only rely on private sector work we,d have very little work. I,ll take my chances competing against local authorities - to date it,s working massively in our favour.

[Amelanchier]

I find it quite offensive that some see fit to slate one another on a public forum that I help to run, just because of who their employer happens to be. At the end of the day, we are all in the same boat. I do not care if you are council employed, self-employed, privately employed, youre lucky not to be unemployed in this day and age. Its about time some got off their high horses and looked at how they lead their own lives, before sniping at others.

 

This is truth.

[butler]

I tend to go for the, just concentrate on what im doing and let other people do or say what they like, clients are intelligent enough to work out who they what to use regardless of what people what to say about me.

[skyhuck]

I tend to go for the, just concentrate on what im doing and let other people do or say what they like, clients are intelligent enough to work out who they what to use regardless of what people what to say about me.

 

 

Spot on!!!!