Good wage for a groundie/Inexperienced climber?

[skyhuck]

Dean I don't want start up the post "ping pong" again but, I want to just put a few more points for your consideration. I think we may have been at slight crossed purposes, I would never ask a customer what other prices they had had at the quoting stage, only AFTER I had either won or lost the job. I do not by any means ask all my customers, just one or two every now and then to just keep in touch with the market.

 

When I first started up I didn't ask but then the odd customer would just tell me, I often shocked by how much more my competitors were charging, I remember one job it was a fair sized HC TD I had quoted £350 would take me and a groundie one day, I cut and chucked all the top and slabbed down the trunk , chip and timber were staying on site. My groundie back then was on £40 per day so I was making an OK wage.

When customer gave me the cheque she had made it out for £375 and told me she had got a price for my main competitor for £1000!

 

I was told a little story a few years ago which I always bear in mined when pricing work.

 

There was a man who owned a whiskey distillery, one day one of his men backs a forklift into one of the huge copper vessels that have been use for over 50 years. He starts to ring round to price a replacement, as it cannot be used in it dinged state, he is shocked to find a new one is going to cost over £500,000 and it will take 3 months to be built, plus in order to fit it they will have to remove part of the roof! so with down time he is looking at the best part of £1,000000

 

Whist ringing round to try and get better quotes he speaks to a guy who says "have you tried Fred ?"

he says no, who's Fred? "hes an expert in vessel repair, he may be able to fix it". Great he says how do I get hold of him? "I'll try to get in contact with him and see if he will come and see you". Please do, I'm staring bankruptcy in the face here!!

 

Couple of days later a morris 1000 pulls up out side the distillery and an old chap with a flat cap gets out, the owner says " can I help you", I'm Fred, he says. Great says the owner please come and look at the vessel!

 

Fred goes in looks at the dent and says I think I can fix it, it will be £40,000.

 

Great!! says the owner when can you start?

 

Are you happy with the price, asks Fred?

 

Yes, yes that great!!

 

OK says Fred "I'll get my gear". He goes to his car and get a wooden tool box he bings it back, opens the box, it contains only a large rubber mallet, he walks around the vessel for a good 15 minuets studying it, then he takes his mallet and hits the vestal once very hard. The vessel vibrates and reverberates for a few seconds and then the dinge bongs out leaving no trace that I had ever been there!

 

The owner is gobsmacked!

 

Fred says what the company name for the invoice?

 

Hang on, hand on, says the owner, I'm not paying you £40,000 for hitting it once with a hammer!!

 

No, no, says Fred I don't charge you for hitting it, the £40,000 is for KNOWING WHERE to hit it!!

 

 

Is Fred a conman? I don't think so!!

 

I feel your price should reflect the "alternatives" what ever they happen to be.

 

If I get asked by a neighbor of a customer to chip some brash they have cut them selves I don't think "thats going to take 10 minuets so with my wage and chipper costs that should be £5", I think "if they got a skip it would cost them £100 so if I charge then £25 its a bargain"

 

Just some thoughts Dean, Mate

[David Humphries]

Fred says what the company name for the invoice?

 

Hang on, hand on, says the owner, I'm not paying you £40,000 for hitting it once with a hammer!!

 

No, no, says Fred I don't charge you for hitting it, the £40,000 is for KNOWING WHERE to hit it!!

 

 

Is Fred a conman? I don't think so!!

 

ate

 

Profound wisdom from the Huckmeister

 

Thanks for sharing the story Dave, I shall try and remmember that one.

 

 

 

.

[Dean Lofthouse]

When customer gave me the cheque she had made it out for £375 and told me she had got a price for my main competitor for £1000!

 

 

Tight Bitch!

 

Good story Dave, which shows you pay for skill, not labour.

 

As a good business man, you will take all things into account, there is a line on any job or a threshold between charging too much and doing a good price and your "chipping brash for a neighbour" who has done the job themselves demonstrates that nicely.

 

The price should (although the customer may not realise it at the time) "save" the customer money because of the skill and equipment you have over others, but dear enough to cover your business hourly or daily rate.

 

Five minutes chipping for £30 is cheaper than a £70 mini skip.

 

I am talking about the "we'll beat any genuine quote" mongers in my references to asking prices, which in my view is totally "cowboy"

 

We all start with some hit and miss pricing, (and still don't always get it right) you will now have a daily target to hit to cover your business overheads taking into account everything, breakdowns the lot, anything you can achieve over that, without being "over" priced is good business.

 

It's establishing where the threshold is between being good value for money and being over priced which is the challenge.

 

But thanks for your thoughts anyway Mate

 

Did you get your multitools BTW and did you like what I wrote on the address?

 

 

 

Ie: Cheaper than

[Tom D]

In light of Hucks distillery story, Have you ever deliberately slowed down on a job in case the client feels like they're paying too much? I used to work for a guy who used to do that, he had a four man team and a u1650 with a 12" bandit on the front, we could get through some stuff with it!

 

I remember once turning up at a job to take down a row of 30' leylandii we felled them and using the chippers winch fed them whole streight through, the whole job probably took less than an hour, I dont'know how much he charged but the client semed a little surprised.

[munkymadman]

my boss was like that. we'd smash out some jobs, come back feeling all smug and waiting for a pat on the back. instead it was 'what are you doing back here already, how can i justify the cost to the client'. we were never given the price of the jobs, so never knew how long it was expected to take. very secretive that way.

we've all worked for bigger firms, get to a day job know you'll have it done by lunch break, so just take it real easy, long breaks etc. everyones happy at the end of the day

[RPA]

Very good lesson Dave, thanx

 

As far as speed vs cost vs customer satisfaction I think the biggest problem is that most customers just do not realise how much machinery etc costs.

For example a high prop of domestc customers ask about grinding. When given a price a high % just and dont realise how much a grinder costs because they equate along the lines of going to a tool hire for a rotovator etc.

 

Like many parts of our trade, public perception, realisation and understanding is very poor.

[skyhuck]

Did you get your multitools BTW and did you like what I wrote on the address?

 

 

 

Ie: Cheaper than

 

Yes thanks, I refer you to

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3111

 

Cheers again Mate

[Mozza]

Ive had that too, Got to a job a few years ago now, Boss says, Section felling of a big oak, He told us it would be a day and a half, We figured strip it first day get the log the morning after, Gets to the job the oak was in a HUGE field on the customers land, Pretty dead/dying hence it coming down, was honestly nothing round it at all, could get the van and chipper right up to it as the ground was firm, Looked at the lad i was working with, said to him, why not fell it? he agreed, Tipped the chip by dinner got all the log on and went back to the yard, job took a day and that was with a good dinner break, went back and the boss went mental, he had TOLD the customer it would be a day and a half, we thought we'd have saved him time and money coz we could get on to another job haha some people

[Robert_S]

i think some customers relate what they are paying you to there own wage and think along the lines of "that would take me all week to earn that" without realizing the cost of running machinery, in the same vain as Skyhucks story i once heard one that involved Van gough when asked by a waiter to sketch something on a napkin he scribbled something down and signed it, the waiter went to lift it only to be told thats 100 francs WHAT the waiter replied it only took you a couple of seconds YES replied Van gough it did but it took years to be this good that i can do it in a couple of seconds and THAT is what you are paying for.

 

I dont know if thats true but always liked the sentiment behind it i also used to think did the water reply "F*** you and attack him for being a Pr*** and cut his ear off.........makes you think