What happens when the lad has a go: part 2

[likeitorlumpit]

it's a luxury to get frustrated

I've done some terrible cuts both before and after my original cs tests

sometimes the saw/chain

sometimes bad technique

Teach him properly and not too downputting and it will repay you in time

Lets face it- groundies work hard and sometimes for little reward.

[skyhuck]

Further than that, the CS30 qualification generally only teaches a candidate how to cross cut timber up to guide bar length. Larger than guide bar length is taught on the CS32.

 

 

 

 

Does this really need teaching???

 

Is cross cutting so technical???

 

I must be some sort of genius, because I just taught myself, its not rocket science.

 

The thing that strikes me it the fact that the lad asked for no help, after being around cutters for a year to think cutting like that is normal or acceptable is what would really worry me. If the chain was part of the problem why did he not stop and sort it or get someone else to sort it??.

[bjam1964]

facts cs30/ covers mainteance and cross cutting and stacking of small timber of 14/15inc.cs31/ covers felling of small trees 14/15inc.

 

so u let your lad fell a tree when he has not had proper training in the cs31 class.in cs31 u do not use wedges.

wedges are only used in cs32/33.

 

and for your lad well all i can say hats off for trying with no exp and no help from u as a boss...your lucky u got your saw back in one lump and running.

 

i think you should as a boss go back to arb college. in my view you have still got some learning to do.because this mistake was not the lads fault its yours.

 

Oh dear, read the facts first please. I felled the tree, the lad watched on to learn the techniques. I started cross cutting the thick end of the trunk, the lad watched on to learn the techniques. I gave him the small end, yes it was around 16" and growing thicker but, as he had sold himself to me as competent and he was employed as trained, why should I spend valuable time supervising and training him? He has been given lots of encouragement and he cross-cut for a day on my log pile supervised and all was ok. He was shown how to use the wedge to stop the saw being pinched in a larger than normal cross-cut situation - surely that is not considered a difficult to master technique? If you were cutting a larger log and it was not going well what would you do? I would expect at least a tap on the shoulder and "why is it doing this?" kind of question. There is no room in my business for people who, despite being told they can ask any questions they like in a friendly, encouraging atmosphere, who just carry on regardless.

 

It is a two way street - at least meet me halfway !

[Bolt]

IOSH and NEBOSH do training courses for managing safety and 'putting people to work'.

 

If your are involved in issuing work to others (both employed and self employed) and you keep having little incidents, maybe it would be worth increasing YOUR level of competence?

[ad15]

Oh dear, read the facts first please. I felled the tree, the lad watched on to learn the techniques. I started cross cutting the thick end of the trunk, the lad watched on to learn the techniques. I gave him the small end, yes it was around 16" and growing thicker but, as he had sold himself to me as competent and he was employed as trained, why should I spend valuable time supervising and training him? He has been given lots of encouragement and he cross-cut for a day on my log pile supervised and all was ok. He was shown how to use the wedge to stop the saw being pinched in a larger than normal cross-cut situation - surely that is not considered a difficult to master technique? If you were cutting a larger log and it was not going well what would you do? I would expect at least a tap on the shoulder and "why is it doing this?" kind of question. There is no room in my business for people who, despite being told they can ask any questions they like in a friendly, encouraging atmosphere, who just carry on regardless.

 

It is a two way street - at least meet me halfway !

 

would help if you gave ALL the facts in the first place...

[Mark Bolam]

The lad was instructed to cross cut a cedar we had just felled. Armed with my trusty 026 he set about reducing the trunk into rounds. My mistake, I left him to get on with it, bearing in mind he has passed his CS30 and has worked for several tree surgeons before working with us.

 

Take a look at the results - shocking! It was not the saw, I managed to finish the cuts in a straight fashion with the same saw.

 

What does this mean? What is the assessment and pass criteria for CS30? Was the assessor asleep?

 

The lads excuses: he has never cross cut something this big. He has never had to use a wedge to stop the saw being pinched. He didn't want to hit the ground with the saw . . .

 

Here's where the trouble started.....

[carlos]

if you were bothered about time and fuel and wear on the saw why did you give him a 260 to ring up a huge lump of wood???!

since he is subbing to you you can either teach him to do it properly or not hire him in the future, no great hassle either way i wouldnt of thought.

just my 2cents in the mix

carl

[bjam1964]

Fair enough - you all make very valid points. I am far from perfect and never claim to be. I was just shocked at the mess left versus the competence sold me at his interview. I want to help others improve but they must be prepared to own up to their own lack of experience and ask questions.

 

He was given the 026 as this is the size saw he was most comfortable and safest with. It has a 16" bar and the chain was properly sharpened.

 

Thanks to the huge difference in opinions in your posts I will take a long hard look at myself in the mirror. I have only posted two bad examples just for discussion - there are many great examples of things done well and great achievements under my direction. I have launched many successful lads into careers. There have been no injuries and only one near miss (barber chair) in 25 years. How many of us can claim that?

[tim Ber]

had the lad touched the ground with the first cut!

Some of the apprentiships only do basic's it is left to onsite training.

[Billy]

The only time i've had this happen is whilst using a shagged chain usually on a saw thats a bit small for the job. as mentioned CS30/31 only cover materila up to 15" and its usually all done on tiny stuff like chestnut coppice stools so it means nothing when attacking a fair sized lump of cedar like that. cutting bigger should be common sense i was cutting 3ft+ timber before i had any tickets its just common sense, but not for all i guess. I personally would have supplied a bigger saw, at least a 36 with a 20" bar for that job as its better suited and probably would have stopped that happening. But if your sure your saw had a tip top chain, then with a years experience and some tickets he should have been able to cut that straighter than that even with a tiny bar....you know what happened better than any of us so we can't really judge. its easy for people on here to say it must have been the equipment as we're all capable of doing that job fine with a saw that works properly...But maybe your guy can't.