Deodar thinning, are we getting it wrong?

[dan blocker]

This is a Deodar I was called on to help clean up after the storms last week. Typically no depth to the roots, mass of healthy sinkers, but more importantly no large laterals on the opposite side to the fall. Also historic brick foundations/ rubble in the base of the resultant hole which meant that the plate just basically sat there with a ready made fault line. The reason for lack of laterals on the one side was due to the fact that another codominant tree stood there until about 5 years ago when it was removed? Also because of the competing tree the branch growth was loaded on the fall side.  Water logged ground, poor root anchorage on one side, historic brickwork under plate, heavily weighted to one side, very high winds from the worst direction in this trees case and over it goes. If it had fell 90 deg to the right it would have taken out someone sat in their lounge?
The tree that’s injured this chap looks to be weighted one way, possibly old structure affecting root development on one side, high wind🤔. There’s 1000’s of these trees about?

[Mick Dempsey]

10 hours ago, Acer ventura said:

You might find this recent post from our social media useful...

 

𝗗𝗲𝗮𝗱𝘄𝗼𝗼𝗱 𝗥𝗶𝘀𝗸-𝗕𝗲𝗻𝗲𝗳𝗶𝘁
We're elbow deep in v2 of VALID's risk model, and the Tree Risk App you use to carry out a Detailed Assessment.
 

One of many substantial improvements in v2 is 𝘩𝘰𝘸 𝘸𝘦 𝘮𝘢𝘯𝘢𝘨𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘢𝘴𝘴𝘦𝘴𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘋𝘦𝘢𝘥𝘸𝘰𝘰𝘥.

As with the Policy section in our Tree Risk-Benefit Management Strategies. Let's take an ISO 31000 approach and 𝘌𝘴𝘵𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘪𝘴𝘩 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘊𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘹𝘵.

First…

𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗕𝗲𝗻𝗲𝗳𝗶𝘁𝘀 𝗼𝗳 𝗗𝗲𝗮𝗱𝘄𝗼𝗼𝗱
𝗛𝗮𝗯𝗶𝘁𝗮𝘁
For a range of organisms, like insects, fungi, lichens, mosses, birds, mammals, and amphibians

𝗜𝗺𝗽𝗿𝗼𝘃𝗲𝘀 𝗧𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗦𝘁𝗮𝗯𝗶𝗹𝗶𝘁𝘆
In particular, mass damping (dissipating wind load). Here are 3 ways.

𝟭) 𝗠𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝗠𝗮𝘀𝘀
Deadwood adds weight. This increases inertia, which reduces sway. Especially in the upper crown.

𝟮) 𝗚𝗿𝗲𝗮𝘁𝗲𝗿 𝗦𝘁𝗶𝗳𝗳𝗻𝗲𝘀𝘀
Deadwood is stiffer than live wood. It dances to a different rhythm than live wood in the wind. This out-of-phase syncopation helps dissipate kinetic energy.

𝟯) 𝗜𝗿𝗿𝗲𝗴𝘂𝗹𝗮𝗿 𝘀𝗵𝗮𝗽𝗲
Helps the tree smooth out the strain and stresses from wind loading.

𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝗥𝗶𝘀𝗸
What does the data tell us about the risk from Deadwood falling?

We know our annual risk of being killed or seriously injured from ALL trees or branches falling is 𝘭𝘦𝘴𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘯 𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘪𝘯 𝘢 𝘮𝘪𝘭𝘭𝘪𝘰𝘯. That's so low, we're at greater risk driving on about a 400km/250mi round trip to visit friends for a weekend than from branches or trees falling over an entire year.

Nearly all these deaths and serious injuries are from live wood. The risk from Deadwood HAS to be much lower.

The overall risk from Deadwood falling is mind-bogglingly low. An annual risk somewhere south of 𝙤𝙣𝙚 𝙞𝙣 𝙤𝙣𝙚 𝙝𝙪𝙣𝙙𝙧𝙚𝙙 𝙢𝙞𝙡𝙡𝙞𝙤𝙣.

𝗗𝗲𝗮𝗱𝘄𝗼𝗼𝗱 𝗖𝗵𝗮𝗿𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗲𝗿𝗶𝘀𝘁𝗶𝗰𝘀
Deadwood has already shed its lower order twigs, shoots, and branches. It falls in smaller lengths than live wood. If it falls, the footprint is much smaller than an equivalent diameter branch that's alive.

Deadwood is not only 𝘴𝘮𝘢𝘭𝘭𝘦𝘳 than live wood, it's 𝘭𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵𝘦𝘳.

As Deadwood provides habitat benefits.

And Deadwood reduces the Likelihood of Failure of branches and trees.

Why is so much 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘮𝘰𝘯𝘦𝘺 spent on removing the benefits from Deadwood?

In v2 of VALID's risk model. Deadwood under 10cm diameter is a Tolerable or Acceptable risk.

We're only going to carry out a Detailed Assessment in Very High, High and Moderate Occupancy where Deadwood is 10cm diameter or more, and longer than 1m.

𝗩𝗔𝗟𝗜𝗗 - 𝗜 - 𝗦𝗽𝗲𝗰𝗶𝗲𝘀 𝗣𝗿𝗼𝗳𝗶𝗹𝗲
When you make Likelihood of Failure decision about Deadwood with VALID v2. We'll pre-colour V, A, L, and D for you.

You make a decision about I for IDENTITY, and whether the Species Profile is green or red. That will determine whether the risk is 𝗧𝗼𝗹𝗲𝗿𝗮𝗯𝗹𝗲 or 𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝗧𝗼𝗹𝗲𝗿𝗮𝗯𝗹𝗲.

Yes, I guess that puts into words what I was trying to articulate.

We used to do two sorts of deadwooding, the complete deadwood, meaning every tiny bit (a real ballache) and what we used to describe as ‘just the elephant killers’ major dead limbs etc. (Much more fun)

Persuading people to leave smaller deadwood would be a hard sell though.

 

[slack ma girdle]

Monterey cypress scruffy nature definitely holds itself together better with its tangled mass of deadwood and half snapped branches.

As soon as you remove one another appears,  so i have stopped removing them .

 

[Mark Bolam]

It’s a wonder that trees managed to survive for so long before we came along, invented modern arboriculture, and started helping them out.

[Dan Maynard]

I like the phrase 'remove major deadwood'. One of the surveyors who does parish council reports I pick up puts 'remove deadwood over 25mm diameter'. I have to be honest I'm not very good at spotting every piece of deadwood that small, and often forget to take my verniers up the tree.

 

I think that you have to include tree species when thinking about this too, a lot of conifer deadwood decays very slowly in the dry conditions up the tree, whereas lime turns to mush and falls out in lumps. Lot of limes by paths planted by the Victorians that have bits to fall out.

[GarethM]

Or like grass when cut, it pours it's energy into regrowth to scavenge more available sunlight adding extra weight to existing limbs instead of putting that collected energy into the roots.

 

Be interesting to compare the root from a pruned tree and a untouched one that's also fallen over in say a storm.

 

Would also be interesting to see the growth rings in the main section, it'll probably be almost none existent.