Is it just me?

[Muddy42]

On 15/03/2024 at 20:14, Peter 1955 said:

When I see Youtube videos, particularly of our American cousins, they all seem to have bars about four feet long on 30cc saws. 🤔 ( Slight exaggeration, I know, but you get the idea ). 

On here recently, I've recently seen people recommending 20" bars on an MS 261 for instance. To me, for efficient use, that's 400 territory. I always start with the smallest bar specified for the saw as the default, and the biggest for when you need it. The small bar makes it nice to use.

My 251 had a 13" bar on it, and I always felt that was too big for the cursed thing. The 261 has a 14", which it laughs at, but 20"? My 400 with a 20" bar on is a vastly different animal to when it has a 16" bar on. 

Is it just me? Am I ridiculously heavy handed? Are people fitting razor sharp chains that I don't know about? I'm genuinely interested to hear the views of some of the experts on here. 

totally agree with you. I much prefer a ‘short bar to a given cc’ ratio. I think manufactures always seem to fit too long bars as standard, maybe people look at price per bar length? 

[Joe Newton]

37 minutes ago, Muddy42 said:

totally agree with you. I much prefer a ‘short bar to a given cc’ ratio. I think manufactures always seem to fit too long bars as standard, maybe people look at price per bar length? 

I used to be of that persuasion. The Jeremy Clarkson "POWER!" motto. 

 

These days after a good few years i prefer the lightest saw to be length within reason. Keep your chains razor sharp and make a few cuts as possible. Port work helps a good deal too.

[Stubby]

On 15/03/2024 at 21:53, Peter 1955 said:

 

As I said, I don't climb, so that's educating me. I'd never considered that, thanks, and thanks to Joe earlier.

Perhaps I aren't as far out of line as I thought. Thanks. 

I general rule of thumb Has always been for absolute max bar lenght the cc divided by three . So a 60cc saw would be a max bar lenght of 20" ( prefer 18" myself ) .

[Mick Dempsey]

Things changed a lot for me when I got a loader.

After that I didn’t have to cut everything to 20/30kg to move. 
So the big saws 288/395/088 became a bit redundant.

Agree with Joe, Having saws as sharp as you can get them is the key.

Not so keen on porting, the noise is too much.

Edited March 18 by Mick Dempsey

[wyk]

As someone who has lived and worked in both the UK and the Pacific Northwest in forestry and logging, I think I can add some perspective. I understand there is a certain amount of bravado when it comes to chainsaw work, and the need to prove ourselves. However, there is a reason things are different. Simply stating Americans aren't smart is a rather ignorant way to go about it. Americans appreciate their money, work and time just as much as you do.

 

We'll start with logging, then go to more private use.

The trees you would be felling in the UK are very, very small compared to what is logged stateside. You simply do not need the same length bars to do surgery or logging in the UK, regardless of the type of wood.

Now, I did work on some large historical estates in the UK that did have large trees, but we'd be in a lot of trouble if we cut them down... More often than not, we were simply cutting up blowdown on these estates.

At one point, a coworker said we could go get the 880 with a 36 inch bar and finish a trunk. I put a 32 inch bar on my ported Husky 385 and made light work of it, far faster and much less exhausting than dragging out the 880 would have been.

 

Most loggers stateside use a skip tooth chain that has about 1/3 less teeth in it or so, have high output oilers, have ported and modified chainsaws, and keep their chains sharp. The skip not only reduces friction and resistance, it also allows the chain to clear bigger chips and more of them - so some also lower their rakers there more then we would in the UK. You can easily run a 32" bar on a 70cc powerhead in Douglas Fir this way. Those on the east coast cutting denser hardwoods tend to use less bar.

 

This isn't rocket science, pros use what works. 

 

Now if you live in the northwest, you will find that longer bars and chains are rather affordable and common. If you are a homeowner and have a 261, you might run 3/8 on it for softwoods or even some of the softer hardwoods in the area like red alder, alpine or big leaf maple, and run a 20 inch bar on her. You might be using skip chain. The 3/8 will hold it's edge longer than 325, etc. If you have a 60 or 70cc saw, you may use a 24 inch bar with skip chain in soft woods. The local shop may only have skip chain available. That is how it was with my local saw shop. You got skip chain and you liked it - though I did live a bit outside of rural areas at the time. Some only had square chain depending on the day. These chains work fine on a 24-30" bar on a 70cc saw in the woods you see in the north west.

 

If you are a tree surgeon who mostly wants to make things look nice in the town or city, you likely would use a 325 or lo pro chain and stick with shorter bars and smaller powerheads for tighter work. It also keeps the noise down to not run ported or big saws. Again, it isn't rocket science.

 

 

 

[Stubby]

8 minutes ago, wyk said:

As someone who has lived and worked in both the UK and the Pacific Northwest in forestry and logging, I think I can add some perspective. I understand there is a certain amount of bravado when it comes to chainsaw work, and the need to prove ourselves. However, there is a reason things are different. Simply stating Americans aren't smart is a rather ignorant way to go about it. Americans appreciate their money, work and time just as much as you do.

 

We'll start with logging, then go to more private use.

The trees you would be felling in the UK are very, very small compared to what is logged stateside. You simply do not need the same length bars to do surgery or logging in the UK, regardless of the type of wood.

Now, I did work on some large historical estates in the UK that did have large trees, but we'd be in a lot of trouble if we cut them down... More often than not, we were simply cutting up blowdown on these estates.

At one point, a coworker said we could go get the 880 with a 36 inch bar and finish a trunk. I put a 32 inch bar on my ported Husky 385 and made light work of it, far faster and much less exhausting than dragging out the 880 would have been.

 

Most loggers stateside use a skip tooth chain that has about 1/3 less teeth in it or so, have high output oilers, have ported and modified chainsaws, and keep their chains sharp. The skip not only reduces friction and resistance, it also allows the chain to clear bigger chips and more of them - so some also lower their rakers there more then we would in the UK. You can easily run a 32" bar on a 70cc powerhead in Douglas Fir this way. Those on the east coast cutting denser hardwoods tend to use less bar.

 

This isn't rocket science, pros use what works. 

 

Now if you live in the northwest, you will find that longer bars and chains are rather affordable and common. If you are a homeowner and have a 261, you might run 3/8 on it for softwoods or even some of the softer hardwoods in the area like red alder, alpine or big leaf maple, and run a 20 inch bar on her. You might be using skip chain. The 3/8 will hold it's edge longer than 325, etc. If you have a 60 or 70cc saw, you may use a 24 inch bar with skip chain in soft woods. The local shop may only have skip chain available. That is how it was with my local saw shop. You got skip chain and you liked it - though I did live a bit outside of rural areas at the time. Some only had square chain depending on the day. These chains work fine on a 24-30" bar on a 70cc saw in the woods you see in the north west.

 

If you are a tree surgeon who mostly wants to make things look nice in the town or city, you likely would use a 325 or lo pro chain and stick with shorter bars and smaller powerheads for tighter work. It also keeps the noise down to not run ported or big saws. Again, it isn't rocket science.

 

 

 

The best and most accurate explanation so far . When you think about it it is just common sense  . 

[Trailoftears]

10 minutes ago, Stubby said:

The best and most accurate explanation so far . When you think about it it is just common sense  . 

Indeed,and I do take your points on board.I derive a lot of enjoyment from following Donny Walker who services plus ports 'proper loggers' saws.,leaving aside his obvious skillsets and a lifetime of experience on all brands of saws,also points out each brands issues/problems without fear or favour.Also, he's philosophical and f.a.f. tbh.Worth a watch for anyone who hasn't come across his words of wisdom.

[Trailoftears]

21 hours ago, Trailoftears said:

They are old stock now,but if you can find one-Stihl used to offer a kit,only in 16" for the 260/261.2 picco 3/8 bars/2 rims plus 3 picco super chains as a performance kit,they were sub £80 when I bought one,so really good value.Tho the bar was a standard rollomatic bar it was the same weight as the light 04 bar.

Heck, I'm telling porkies (again),the performance kit was 1 bar,1 rim sprocket and 3 chains-I forgot,they were such good value,I bought 2,1@£80 then 1@£60-it seemed silly not to at those prices.But perhaps the interesting point that EVEN on a 16" bar the unspoken admission from Stihl was that the the torquey ms261 could be better.The gauge was still 1.3mm but the bars were q.narrow nosed and light,the chains were picco super rapid,so fairly aggressive with a pitch of 3/8 l.p.,with I think,a lower tooth number than the usual setup.So I think that qualifies as a gentle semi-skip setup to maximise performance? 🤔

[Joe Newton]

2 hours ago, wyk said:

As someone who has lived and worked in both the UK and the Pacific Northwest in forestry and logging, I think I can add some perspective. I understand there is a certain amount of bravado when it comes to chainsaw work, and the need to prove ourselves. However, there is a reason things are different. Simply stating Americans aren't smart is a rather ignorant way to go about it. Americans appreciate their money, work and time just as much as you do.

 

We'll start with logging, then go to more private use.

The trees you would be felling in the UK are very, very small compared to what is logged stateside. You simply do not need the same length bars to do surgery or logging in the UK, regardless of the type of wood.

Now, I did work on some large historical estates in the UK that did have large trees, but we'd be in a lot of trouble if we cut them down... More often than not, we were simply cutting up blowdown on these estates.

At one point, a coworker said we could go get the 880 with a 36 inch bar and finish a trunk. I put a 32 inch bar on my ported Husky 385 and made light work of it, far faster and much less exhausting than dragging out the 880 would have been.

 

Most loggers stateside use a skip tooth chain that has about 1/3 less teeth in it or so, have high output oilers, have ported and modified chainsaws, and keep their chains sharp. The skip not only reduces friction and resistance, it also allows the chain to clear bigger chips and more of them - so some also lower their rakers there more then we would in the UK. You can easily run a 32" bar on a 70cc powerhead in Douglas Fir this way. Those on the east coast cutting denser hardwoods tend to use less bar.

 

This isn't rocket science, pros use what works. 

 

Now if you live in the northwest, you will find that longer bars and chains are rather affordable and common. If you are a homeowner and have a 261, you might run 3/8 on it for softwoods or even some of the softer hardwoods in the area like red alder, alpine or big leaf maple, and run a 20 inch bar on her. You might be using skip chain. The 3/8 will hold it's edge longer than 325, etc. If you have a 60 or 70cc saw, you may use a 24 inch bar with skip chain in soft woods. The local shop may only have skip chain available. That is how it was with my local saw shop. You got skip chain and you liked it - though I did live a bit outside of rural areas at the time. Some only had square chain depending on the day. These chains work fine on a 24-30" bar on a 70cc saw in the woods you see in the north west.

 

If you are a tree surgeon who mostly wants to make things look nice in the town or city, you likely would use a 325 or lo pro chain and stick with shorter bars and smaller powerheads for tighter work. It also keeps the noise down to not run ported or big saws. Again, it isn't rocket science.

 

 

 

I read someone on FB who was running 42" on his 500i and it pulled it fine.

 

Think he was American though so probably thick as f*ck.

[doobin]

23 hours ago, Trailoftears said:

They are old stock now,but if you can find one-Stihl used to offer a kit,only in 16" for the 260/261.2 picco 3/8 bars/2 rims plus 3 picco super chains as a performance kit,they were sub £80 when I bought one,so really good value.Tho the bar was a standard rollomatic bar it was the same weight as the light 04 bar.

You can get an 18” picco bar for the 261. I like it, I prefer picco to 325 for that size saw. Although some of the newer low profile .325 chains are very nice, they are pricey whereas a roll of Rotatech picco chain is not and it fits all my smaller saws.