HMRC punitively changing 4 door pickup rules

[Johnsond]

5 hours ago, Big J said:

You hardly see any pickups here in Sweden. You get reamed for tax with them here, and in all honesty, they aren't that useful except as a hybrid work/family vehicle. 

 

From my experience though:

 

* A van tows far better. Much more stable.

* A van also carries far more kit, and for someone very tall like me, a large van offers far more space for the driver.

* Almost any car is a better family vehicle. More economical, quieter, more comfortable and often more interior space. I recall with the Navara being entirely unable to be a passenger in front of a baby seat in the back. I couldn't actually get my legs in.

 

The only reason that pickups are so popular in the UK is the tax breaks. There are much better vehicles out there for actually working. 

I’ve tried towing the previous mill I had J with sons 2.2transit 🤷‍♂️utterly useless and not even worth going off-road. 3.2 Ranger has 4wd tows 3.5t easily, I  get in ok at 6ft 5”. Let’s face it J they don’t build them to suit me never mind your height. I didn’t even think about the tax implications or benefits when choosing mine. I needed 3.5t towing capacity 4wd and as much grunt as I could get in a rhd format. It’s just more and more red tape in the UK suffocating small businesses. I’m sure you will get some who welcome this as they disapprove of anyone getting a break of any sort in life. Truth is with Hmrc ( a massive unaccountable organisation that’s destroying lives and businesses on a daily basis) they will probably end up actually taking less revenue and doing more bad than good which is generally the case. You recall the investigation myself and a few others went through a few years back, the tax take off the 48 guys involved has plummeted post investigation ( myself included) as most are stopping before going super high or a good few are getting the 183 days out the country and now paying zero. A friend of mine runs a Navara, we were discussing the implications of this legislation the other day. He sends out a dive team often to inaccessible areas towing a trailer or small boat and often carrying the HSE legal min 5 man team in one vehicle. These pick ups are allocated to one employee who looks after it and tends to give a damn as he gets to take it home at the weekend. 🤷‍♂️utterly pointless legislation nothing more than greed and yet more taxation . 

[Big J]

5 minutes ago, Johnsond said:

I’ve tried towing the previous mill I had J with sons 2.2transit 🤷‍♂️utterly useless and not even worth going off-road. 3.2 Ranger has 4wd tows 3.5t easily, I  get in ok at 6ft 5”. Let’s face it J they don’t build them to suit me never mind your height. I didn’t even think about the tax implications or benefits when choosing mine. I needed 3.5t towing capacity 4wd and as much grunt as I could get in a rhd format. It’s just more and more red tape in the UK suffocating small businesses. I’m sure you will get some who welcome this as they disapprove of anyone getting a break of any sort in life. Truth is with Hmrc ( a massive unaccountable organisation that’s destroying lives and businesses on a daily basis) they will probably end up actually taking less revenue and doing more bad than good which is generally the case. You recall the investigation myself and a few others went through a few years back, the tax take off the 48 guys involved has plummeted post investigation ( myself included) as most are stopping before going super high or a good few are getting the 183 days out the country and now paying zero. A friend of mine runs a Navara, we were discussing the implications of this legislation the other day. He sends out a dive team often to inaccessible areas towing a trailer or small boat and often carrying the HSE legal min 5 man team in one vehicle. These pick ups are allocated to one employee who looks after it and tends to give a damn as he gets to take it home at the weekend. 🤷‍♂️utterly pointless legislation nothing more than greed and yet more taxation . 

 

Totally understand the need to tow heavy - I did it for years and years in the UK. 

What I never understood is why they put so little power into pickups. We had the Navara, the Berlingo Van (160ps - actually towed superbly) and the 4x4 Sprinter. And then I got the V10 Touareg. 

 

By modern standards, it's power output wasn't that high (370ps) but it would happily accelerate up a 12% hill towing 3200kg at 50mpg. Any other tow vehicle I've ever had would be grinding away at 25-30. 

 

That's always the issue though isn't it. There are vehicles that are outstanding at particular jobs but very few that can manage everything. 

[lux]

32 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

If ever I were to get a pickup here, I'd just go American. The roads are massive and empty compared to the UK, and a Yank pickup is more suited to my size. I'd say you probably see as many American pickups here as Japanese.

 

Our family car is a 4x4 T5 Caravelle. Not super cheap to run but it's bloody versatile. I've transported pianos in the back of it, driven very long distances and on Friday pulled a Kia out of a ditch after it pulled too far over to let a car pass. 

I’d do the same.  I really like American pickups.  
just no point having one in the UK.  
ah we had a 4x4 caravelle a while back.  15 plate with the nice auto box.  Drove it to the alps for skiing a couple of times and was very practical. Was a nicely thought out car but had the issue of burning oil.   About 800ml in 1000miles of driving with about 40k on the clock.   VW said it was high but within tolerance( just)  so we sold it as they would do nothing under the warranty.  Cost of a new engine was frightening if it ever got to that 

[Johnsond]

10 minutes ago, Big J said:

 

Totally understand the need to tow heavy - I did it for years and years in the UK. 

What I never understood is why they put so little power into pickups. We had the Navara, the Berlingo Van (160ps - actually towed superbly) and the 4x4 Sprinter. And then I got the V10 Touareg. 

 

By modern standards, it's power output wasn't that high (370ps) but it would happily accelerate up a 12% hill towing 3200kg at 50mpg. Any other tow vehicle I've ever had would be grinding away at 25-30. 

 

That's always the issue though isn't it. There are vehicles that are outstanding at particular jobs but very few that can manage everything. 

Much of that I agree with J and if they did rhd rams with a big Cummins in I’d be at front of the queue. The crap part of this is we get the whole green agenda rammed down our throats especially up in Scotland yet the legislation may well end up with people running additional vehicles rather than making do with the work pick up. I’d like an Iveco 4x4 50c but absolutely stupid money. A mate of mine has just bought a  brand new Toyota Land Cruiser crew cab  pick up from a dealer down south who brings them from Australia,4.5v8 diesel, manual box absolute cracker of a truck I’d love one  but £74k 🤮🤮🤮. Insane money. 

[devon TWiG]

It appears that if you already have one then no change until 2028....it seems to be about "benefit in kind" if you are supplied one as a company vehicle , not sure on the situation for owner drivers , farmers for example ??   

[devon TWiG]

This suggests a "loophole" for modified vehicles with rear seats removed and windows blanked ..

Double-cab pick-up truck tax explained: 2024 company car tax changes and VAT | Auto Express

WWW.AUTOEXPRESS.CO.UK

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The inside line on HMRC’s VAT and Benefit-in-Kind tax rules for those using double-cab pick-ups as company vehicles

 

[Botty Cough]

I find it better to use an old range rover.

Best tow wagon around and great off-road. 

Cheap enough tax etc etc etc

Edited February 18 by Botty Cough

[swinny]

Is this purely for employees using double cab pick ups as perks? 

 

 

What about company owners / sole traders who use the pickups as a 2nd vehicle to tow to site and for support vehicle? What's the crack then? 

 

Is this a storm in a teacup for me or is it time to get shut of the pickup and buy something else? If tax o ly goes up 100 quid a year so be it but horrendous amounts they can bugger off

[swinny]

Is this just for brand spanking new ones?

[Stubby]

8 hours ago, Big J said:

You hardly see any pickups here in Sweden.

The dudes obviously have  have massive todgers then Jonathan .  So , no need 🙂