More doom and gloom

[peds]

I hear you, I really do. But let's touch base in the year 2035 and we can chat about expansion then. 

[GarethM]

1 minute ago, peds said:

I hear you, I really do. But let's touch base in the year 2035 and we can chat about expansion then. 

In 2035 we'll still be in a similar situation, mostly because Bono and his hippy ilk wanted rid of nuclear in the 1980s and a certain Anthony Neil Wedgwood Benn listened.

[peds]

In 2035 we'll be eating hawthorn leaves and dreaming about the delicious squirrels we've hunted to extinction,  while wishing we'd put solar panels on everyone's roof and insulation in everyone's attic back in the early 21st century when we had the opportunity to do so for the umpteenth time.

 

But yeah, let's blame Bono instead of BP and Monsanto. 

[sime42]

Dare I mention Degrowth? Maybe it's time to sack off the idea that GDP is king.

 

Degrowth can work — here’s how science can help

WWW.NATURE.COM

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Wealthy countries can create prosperity while using less materials and energy if they abandon economic growth as an...

 

[Squaredy]

33 minutes ago, GarethM said:

but only wind out at sea with ZERO subsidy.

Offshore wind is indeed the cheapest way to generate electricity these days.  No subsidy is needed.  Which is why it is booming.  And is why I get electricity at 75% off for my electric van.

 

What will help as well is to stop subsidising fossil fuels.

 

In fact government subsidies are really the biggest cause of all our current problems.  If the consumer had to pay the real cost of producing food we would all eat less meat and more veg.

[GarethM]

It might be cheaper per unit, it's not however correct as you need a base load which means more generation elsewhere this means more cost even with a connected grid to Europe.

 

Wind doesn't blow when you want it and there's no hydrogen storage to make use of it, so we turn then off when it's too windy which takes a surprisingly large amount of power.

 

Next you'll bang on about batteries, yeah battery runaways are so great for the environment.

 

And what fossil fuel subsidies in particular are you highlighting?.

Edited February 14 by GarethM

[openspaceman]

4 hours ago, Doug Tait said:

The good old days, when I was a young brickies labourer everyone on site got glass bottles of juice every day. I'd collect up all the empties (worth 10p or 15p) and every Friday ate for free at the bakers.

In the good old days 60 years ago I collected a crate full of Watneys pale and brown ale bottles after a family party in order to collect the 3d deposit, loaded them on the battlewagon and hauled them in to the jug and bottle kiosk of the local pub. I handed them over to the landlord, Ernie Madder, who took them and refused to pay me my three shillings on the grounds I was under 18 :-(.

[Squaredy]

1 hour ago, GarethM said:

It might be cheaper per unit, it's not however correct as you need a base load which means more generation elsewhere this means more cost even with a connected grid to Europe.

 

Wind doesn't blow when you want it and there's no hydrogen storage to make use of it, so we turn then off when it's too windy which takes a surprisingly large amount of power.

 

Next you'll bang on about batteries, yeah battery runaways are so great for the environment.

 

And what fossil fuel subsidies in particular are you highlighting?.

I do agree we need better electricity storage.  Don't forget this has been achieved very well by pump storage power stations - the first one came online in 1963.  But wind is not the only answer of course.

 

As for subsidies, who pays for the cleanup when fossil fuel extraction ceases?  It is the taxpayer of course.  OK, the company behind it may make a contribution, but there are currently thousands of disused oil platforms which no-one really has a clue how to dispose of.    And what about the millions of land based oil wells which are not properly capped?  Why are the companies not made to cap them when they are no longer needed?  Instead they leak vast amounts of methane and the local authority tries to deal with the problem.  I live near the South Wales coalfield - it still costs many millions per year to manage the spoil heaps etc.  All subsidised by our taxes.  

[GarethM]

I said it before, but we need nuclear base load.

 

Gas should not be used for power stations, whilst I don't want to lament about the old days as I'm not that old.

 

Gas was almost exclusively heating, burnt at point of use and whilst back boilers were awful, at today's 92+ efficiency Vs a power station that's about 30%.

[Muddy42]

Its a complex problem, but local multiple source of microgeneration and batteries have to be part of the solution. A friend of mine has had a small hydro for 10 years now and doesn't buy any electricity between October and March.  When solar goes in soon, he'll be almost totally off-grid.  Hopefully the cost will come down.