More doom and gloom

[Capetown]

G. B. National Grid status

WWW.GRIDWATCH.TEMPLAR.CO.UK

Pumped storage is just a drop in the ocean! 

[Steven P]

6 hours ago, peds said:

Also eat the rich. 

 

Have you seen Jacob Rees-Mogg? Eat the rich, We'd need to feed him up first to make it worthwhile

[Steven P]

6 hours ago, GarethM said:

In 2035 we'll still be in a similar situation, mostly because Bono and his hippy ilk wanted rid of nuclear in the 1980s and a certain Anthony Neil Wedgwood Benn listened.

 

Didn't realise that Labour politician served in Thatchers government

[GarethM]

8 minutes ago, Steven P said:

Didn't realise that Labour politician served in Thatchers government

Atomic hypocrisy | Tony Benn | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

---

Tony Benn: Neither Bush nor Blair is in a position to take a high moral line on Iran's nuclear programme.

 

That's a pretty good summary, I've read a few other nuclear power history books that pretty much backup Tony Benn's hate of nuclear power which effectively killed home grown industry.

[Steven P]

Pumped storage: It is quite a recent problem we are talking about and the technology is catching up. 10 years ago windfarms and solar were a small part of the generation mix, we could generally take all they produced and no problem, overcast still days we just ramped up another generator to make it all work.

 

Now of course about 40% of our electricity can be produced by renewable means... but the storage solutions have only recently (last few years) become viable for large amounts. I reckon this discussion will go on and around for a few years till the engineers get something worthwhile working.

 

My money would be to convert spare electricity to hydrogen generation in the medium term - we are used to storing liquid fuels and transporting them, small changes we could supply domestic gas as hydrogen - I think they are trying this in Hartlepool. Discounting large pumped storage, the energy store isn't large enough in the UK (I think enough for a days electricity before the dams are empty), though we have an interconnector to Norway, we take electricity as needed and can send it the other way to refill their pumped stores (which empty when we need it).

 

Domestically... you could say that heat pumps are pumped storage on a micro scale, instead of water it is heat we are pumping. Needs a different mindset to use though, got to get away from needing instant heat, and have constant heating at a lower heat output.. and that can help even out doemstic electricity supplies too, reduces the peaks first thing when the electric boilers start and at tea time when we al come on from work.

[Steven P]

7 minutes ago, GarethM said:

 

That's a pretty good summary, I've read a few other nuclear power history books that pretty much backup Tony Benn's hate of nuclear power which effectively killed home grown industry.

 

As I read it, he didn't do a deal with Iran (a beacon of world stability) and made a certain type of Nuclear reactor in the UK because Iran would have half owned it? I think looking at world history in the last 45 years probably a good thing (of course, doing a few deals here or there might have changed history, we will never know).

 

Of course, since 1979, Thatcher came to power Benn wasn't secretary of State for Energy, and U2 released their first album (1980). Bono and his hippy ilk were in no position in 1977 to influence the government.

 

40 years later and of course, Tony Benns hatred of nuclear power has influenced Conservative, Labour and coalition governments? (even extending beyond his death?).

 

I don't think his influence extended that far.

[openspaceman]

2 hours ago, Muddy42 said:

Its a complex problem, but local multiple source of microgeneration and batteries have to be part of the solution. A friend of mine has had a small hydro for 10 years now and doesn't buy any electricity between October and March.  When solar goes in soon, he'll be almost totally off-grid.  Hopefully the cost will come down.

 

The costs of solar PV and batteries has come down a lot recently such that if I wanted to DIY a new installation of 6kW PV panels £1062, 5kW off grid inverter £1049 and 10kWh of battery £2925 plus fittings, total ~£6k  I would have a system better than the 4kW PV I had fitted for £13k 12 years ago. This would supply all the needs of a 3bed household, except heating, for 8 months of the year. Trouble is to connect it to the grid there is the need for another of these gravy trains, MCS but there is an easy work around. Those prices are inclusive of VAT and a qualified electrician  can claim that back and not charge VAT for the whole installation, giving £1000 to offset labour costs. On a similar system that cost £12k by an MCS installer on my daughter's house she ran her EV from March to October too and it is on target to produce 6MWh in a year. She is paid  up to 15p/kW hour for the excess she exports.

 

For 12 years I have produced more electricity than I used net, for 2 years I have had a battery that has reduced my reliance on the grid to 500kWh/year.With a small few hundred Watt CHP I could cover that with 3 47kg  propane bottles and pay for those with the reduction of standing charges for utilities. I reckon about a quarter of UK houses could do the same.

 

Here is a graphic of nearly a year record, as I only started it last March, but it shows clearly the hungry period around Xmas where the blue is imports from grid and the yellow showing self consumption plus the red being exports to the grid.

[GarethM]

Just now, Steven P said:

40 years later and of course, Tony Benns hatred of nuclear power has influenced Conservative, Labour and coalition governments? (even extending beyond his death?).

 

I don't think his influence extended that far.

Read the very end, ignore the Iran stuff.

 

He was apposed to all civil and military nuclear, a rhetoric that took over all labour politicians even to this day.

 

So every time the call came for more nuclear it just got kicked down the road again and again.

[openspaceman]

20 minutes ago, Steven P said:

My money would be to convert spare electricity to hydrogen generation

I'll beg to disagree with you there, there are many better ways to store excess without the inefficiency in conversions.

[Steven P]

6 minutes ago, GarethM said:

Read the very end, ignore the Iran stuff.

 

He was apposed to all civil and military nuclear, a rhetoric that took over all labour politicians even to this day.

 

So every time the call came for more nuclear it just got kicked down the road again and again.

 

Even in the 30 years of Conservative governments?